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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old August 17 2008, 06:21 AM   #31
Brutal Strudel
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

Thanks for the thoughtful questions and responses!

Let's hope this movie rocks.
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Old August 17 2008, 06:25 PM   #32
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

Heres the defintive 89-92 Batmobile info.

Taken from the special edition dvd release.



Its a good watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSNO7LL_L3Y
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Old August 17 2008, 10:00 PM   #33
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

What about when the Yoda puppet was redesigned from Episode V to Episode I? Was that a good thing?
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Old August 17 2008, 10:09 PM   #34
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

MisterPL wrote: View Post
What about when the Yoda puppet was redesigned from Episode V to Episode I? Was that a good thing?
Well, the answer to that is self-contained in what Yoda looks like in Eps 2 and 3.
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Old August 18 2008, 02:17 AM   #35
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

I'm sorry, but I don't think comparing the 1960s BATMAN show with current movies is a fair comparison, or representative of what's happening with STAR TREK.

The BATMAN TV show wasn't a serious story. It was meant to be an ongoing joke. Every episode was done tongue in cheek.

The current movies are done in the more serious tone of the comicbooks (in particular with how the books have been in recent years).

Still, even with Batman, I think a virtual TANK as the Batmobile is going too far. The car's usually depicted in the comics as a useable automobile, albeit often with "hidden extras".

But I digress...

Star Trek, while "meant to sell toothpaste", has always been taken as serious by its fans.

In the ENTERPRISE two-parter "In a Mirror, Darkly", modern TREK characters were seen on sets built to duplicate the ones from the original STAR TREK.

It worked PERFECTLY.

To compare Shatner's Kirk's Enterprise with the TV Batmobile and so claim it needs to be updated to look "acceptable" just isn't valid.

The original Enterprise looked fine, and could be used in a current production.

Really...

How many of you would have turned up your nose if the original designs had been kept in JJ's film?

You'd have gone to see the movie. You KNOW you would. You'd probably even be a little on the "giddy" side...which you usually look down on us "traditionalists" for being.

We'd ALL have loved it if the original STAR TREK had been restored, with only new actors playing the roles.

Why would the way the Enterprise looks, inside or out, or props like communicators, affect your enjoyment of the story?

You say that to us "don't change anything!" people, so it should be all right for one of us to say it to you guys who insist "change is good".

Would it have been so bad to recreate ALL the sets as they were, all the props, etc, and just have changed the characters' faces?

I seriously doubt even people who aren't Trek fans would have stayed away just because the original look was kept.

After all, you guys keep saying "It's the story telling that's important".

The look didn't HAVE TO be changed.

The fact that some of it has (to an unknown degree, at this point, tho the uniform spoilers give some hope), well...okay. It's done. I'm still going to the film, and any sequels.

But to say it HAD to be changed, and to compare the original Enterprise to the TV Batmobile as proof that change was NEEDED?

Uh-uh.

No way.

Shatner's Kirk's Enterprise would still have flown today, and if the ship IS going to look fairly close to the original, this suggests that really no changes were desperately needed. The original was NOT comparable to the TV Batmobile. Whole 'nother situation.
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Old August 18 2008, 05:04 AM   #36
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

I wonder how the TOS uniforms would look with nipples...???
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Old August 18 2008, 05:42 AM   #37
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

Rhaenys wrote: View Post
Well, actually, this proves to me that redesign may also be a bad thing. This was my favorite Batmobile:


The newest one is really ugly.

Yeah, the new one looks powerful, but this one was really elegant, and it suits to Batman.
And Keaton's, Kilmer's and Clooney's costumes were also great.
(Yes, I'm a big fan of Burton Batman films. )

But Bale is the hottest Batman.
Which Batmobile is that one from?

I agree with you, I don't really like "The Tumbler" myself, it isn't really a batmobile.
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Old August 18 2008, 05:58 AM   #38
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

I also don't think it's fair to compare the 1966 Batmobile to the Tumbler. The 1966 car was made in like 10 days, and basically slightly modified an existing concept car. The movie Batmobiles were all designed from the ground-up to be what they are on screen.

And, Therin is right, as with most movie props, there's no one Batmobile from any of the movies. There are usually several, some designed as "hero" vehicles with lots of detail, and others mere shells designed for specific kinds of shots.
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Old August 18 2008, 01:31 PM   #39
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
MisterPL wrote: View Post
What about when the Yoda puppet was redesigned from Episode V to Episode I? Was that a good thing?
Well, the answer to that is self-contained in what Yoda looks like in Eps 2 and 3.
Meaning what, it is good strategy to take super work done in the 80s and use similar techniques to do a crap job in 99 so as to make the CG version you do in the next century look good by comparison?
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Old August 18 2008, 01:42 PM   #40
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

I hope the enterprise gets redesigned quite a lot, lets be honest here the design has aged very very badly, the original has aged as well as a a knackered oldsmobile and looks far too 60's not to mention fragile.

It wasn't a attractive ship to begin with with it looking very awkward, hell there were early publicity shots shown upside down as people thought the ship looked daft the other way up.

The BoP is a much better design which has stood up very well, the old enterprise looks like it would crack aprt at its spindly anorexic seams if it ever tried anything stressing like moving.
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Old August 18 2008, 01:44 PM   #41
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

trevanian wrote: View Post
Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
MisterPL wrote: View Post
What about when the Yoda puppet was redesigned from Episode V to Episode I? Was that a good thing?
Well, the answer to that is self-contained in what Yoda looks like in Eps 2 and 3.
Meaning what, it is good strategy to take super work done in the 80s and use similar techniques to do a crap job in 99 so as to make the CG version you do in the next century look good by comparison?
Nah... meaning "keep the the elements which can or should be replaced, and replace the elements you should keep."

The "Ep1" Yoda LOOKED different, but was created using the same technology.

The "Ep2/3" Yoda looked the same as the original one, but was created using new techniques. Both were puppeteered and voiced by the same guy... but in one case it was a physical "filming model" puppet and in the other it was a composite approach, involving mo-cap of a physical "scanner puppet," combined with the more common "full CGI animation" techniques...

As a result, the Ep2/3 Yoda looked like we expected him to look, moved like we expected him to move, but was a whole lot MORE convincing than the original filming puppet... or the Ep1 puppet.

One of the big problems with "change" is that change doesn't always equal progress. Sometimes the most progressive approach is to realize you're on the wrong road and to turn around and go back the soonest.
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Old August 18 2008, 01:47 PM   #42
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing





Well, how about THIS? It's not a "CHANGE"... it's far more closely related to the original comic-book (ie, "source material") costume than EITHER of the above.


Last edited by Cary L. Brown; August 18 2008 at 02:08 PM.
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Old August 18 2008, 02:48 PM   #43
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

aloha62 wrote: View Post
I hope the enterprise gets redesigned quite a lot, lets be honest here the design has aged very very badly, the original has aged as well as a a knackered oldsmobile and looks far too 60's not to mention fragile.

It wasn't a attractive ship to begin with with it looking very awkward, hell there were early publicity shots shown upside down as people thought the ship looked daft the other way up.
Blasphemy!
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Old August 18 2008, 03:25 PM   #44
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

I like the Tim burton Batmobile better too.

i think batman's costume in the new movie was way too over thought as well. it's not proof of anything.

I also think batman in comics drawn on paper looks cooler than any actual guy in a costume so what does it matter anyway
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Old August 18 2008, 03:32 PM   #45
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Re: Visual Proof a Resdesign is a good thing

aloha62 wrote: View Post
I hope the enterprise gets redesigned quite a lot, lets be honest here the design has aged very very badly, the original has aged as well as a a knackered oldsmobile and looks far too 60's not to mention fragile.

It wasn't a attractive ship to begin with with it looking very awkward, hell there were early publicity shots shown upside down as people thought the ship looked daft the other way up.

The BoP is a much better design which has stood up very well, the old enterprise looks like it would crack aprt at its spindly anorexic seams if it ever tried anything stressing like moving.
but the thing about the enterprise is i think it was intended to be kind of weird and quirky looking

Like when they redesigned the ship for the Next generation movies and it became this smooth sports car like version of the enterprise, it just wasn't as star trek-like.
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