RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,920
Posts: 5,331,609
Members: 24,558
Currently online: 619
Newest member: GarySe7en

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Inquisition
By: Michelle on Jul 12

Cubify Star Trek 3DMe Mini Figurines
By: T'Bonz on Jul 11

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech

Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 20 2008, 12:46 PM   #16
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Navigational Defletor?

...although on a related note, I'd have more difficulty accepting that the bussard collectors work at warp speeds.
One might argue that this is the only speed at which they can work. That is, they wouldn't have enough hydrogen atoms to suck in unless the ship were moving very fast.

Clearly, though, the collectors would have to be much more complex than simple magnets in order to be compatible with warp fields. Perhaps this is why they absolutely have to be mounted in line with the warp coils, preferably at the forward ends of separate nacelles, rather than for example under the hull aircraft air intake style?

I hadn't heard of the "warp ramming" reference before. Would that be a sort of subspace kinetic energy weapon?
It's a matter of some debate. I don't think warp ramming is referenced anywhere outside "BoBW", where Riker considers it a last-ditch tactic, and Wesley has some sort of an objection. Perhaps the boy genius was trying to point out that the maneuver cannot possibly work? After all, we have heard that subspace fields reduce the inertial mass of an object (this is probably prerequisite for the operation of impulse engines), and we might suspect that the inertial mass of a ship at warp is also reduced, making ramming futile.

Ramming in general is rife with conflict, though: episodes like "The Hunted" (where spacecraft bounce off shields) seem to suggest that kinetic energy is one of the easiest things to repel with shields, yet "Tears of the Prophets" shows that ramming is a valid tactic against shielded vessels after all. Perhaps we are to think that the shields used against the Dominion were extensively modified in order to cope with the exotic phased polaron weapons of the Dominion, and had to sacrifice their ability to repel kinetic attacks?

On a related vein, if the navigational deflector can deflect a dust particle at warp 9, it would make comparative sense that it be able to deflect an entire planet at impulse speed. Or at least allow a starship to bore right through one. That is, if there is anything remotely Newtonian about the way ships behave at warp. We are probably missing big pieces of that particular puzzle...

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21 2008, 06:21 AM   #17
shipfisher
Commander
 
Re: Navigational Defletor?

Some good stuff here Timo to help me reconsider my opinions on deflectors and bussard collectors. I like the idea that ships nest deeper into subspace as warp speed increases. Maybe there's a situation analogous to relativity theory where relative velocities never exceed c even if two ships are travelling towards each other at individual velocities that exceed c when added together separately. Perhaps ships become further "disconnected" from normal space as warp speeds increase in such a way that the relative kinetic energy of oncoming matter in the ship's path never exceeds the value equivalent to the ship's sublight velocity (which I assume is conserved in some manor) within the warp field. Therefore bussards work (with a nifty gas density compression effect due to the relative FTL approach rate making them more effective) and deflectors are still required, but you avoid that "beyond infinite mass" situation you get with FTL speeds in relativity theory (if it still applies here at all).

Last edited by shipfisher; August 21 2008 at 08:25 AM.
shipfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21 2008, 05:46 PM   #18
James Wright
Commodore
 
James Wright's Avatar
 
Location: Church Hill, Tennessee
Re: Navigational Defletor?

Hey folks! Sorry I haven't been around lately, someting's wrong with my computer! (I borrowed my sisters' for this post.)

If someone has a copy of Star Trek The Magazine with the article on the Obreth class starship!?

JDW
James Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21 2008, 07:55 PM   #19
Major Chord
Choir Boy Extraordinaire
 
Major Chord's Avatar
 
Location: Major Chord
Re: Navigational Defletor?

Well, that question didn't make much sense...
__________________
One of Jeremiah Peabody's Polyunsaturated Quick-Dissolving Fast-Acting Pleasant-Tasting Green and Purple Pills
Major Chord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22 2008, 04:42 AM   #20
James Wright
Commodore
 
James Wright's Avatar
 
Location: Church Hill, Tennessee
Re: Navigational Defletor?

About the Obreth class starship, I think there was an article in Star Trek The Magazine with schematic drawings of the exterior of the ship!
Does anybody have a copy and do the schematics show a navigational deflector?
Thanks for the help!

JDW
James Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2008, 08:57 PM   #21
James Wright
Commodore
 
James Wright's Avatar
 
Location: Church Hill, Tennessee
Re: Navigational Defletor?

Does anyone know where I can find picturesof the Obreth class starshipon the internet that shows forward and aft views? After finding my copy of Star Trek The Magazine with the article on the Obreth class starship I'd like to see an actual model with the deflector pointing aft!
Thanks for helping!

JDW
James Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2008, 02:42 AM   #22
Major Chord
Choir Boy Extraordinaire
 
Major Chord's Avatar
 
Location: Major Chord
Re: Navigational Defletor?

Try these. You know, Google is available for free...
__________________
One of Jeremiah Peabody's Polyunsaturated Quick-Dissolving Fast-Acting Pleasant-Tasting Green and Purple Pills
Major Chord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2008, 02:47 AM   #23
Unicron
Continuity Spackle
 
Unicron's Avatar
 
Location: Cybertron
Send a message via ICQ to Unicron
Re: Navigational Defletor?

Are you referring to the Fact Files which had a version of the MSD?
__________________

"My dream is to eat candy and poop emeralds. I'm halfway successful."


Catbert, Evil Director of Human Resources
Unicron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2008, 05:44 AM   #24
James Wright
Commodore
 
James Wright's Avatar
 
Location: Church Hill, Tennessee
Re: Navigational Defletor?

I was hoping someone had pictures of the filming model or could direct me to a web site, while looking at pictures of the Obreth over at the Daystrom Institute Of Technology I spotted something that looks like phaser turrets on the nacelles dorsal surface, (aft portion) of the Starship Grissom.(Whatever it is it looks like the ball turrets carried on larger starships of this period.)
Thanks!

JDW
James Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2008, 06:16 AM   #25
Unicron
Continuity Spackle
 
Unicron's Avatar
 
Location: Cybertron
Send a message via ICQ to Unicron
Re: Navigational Defletor?

I believe those would be RCS thrusters, not phasers. You're probably thinking of these structures.
__________________

"My dream is to eat candy and poop emeralds. I'm halfway successful."


Catbert, Evil Director of Human Resources
Unicron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2008, 04:53 PM   #26
Major Chord
Choir Boy Extraordinaire
 
Major Chord's Avatar
 
Location: Major Chord
Re: Navigational Defletor?

I remember in one discussion I was having about the Oberth, those were speculated to be Bussard collectors. Could be thrusters though, orindeed phasers, but that seems like a stupid place to put phasers, even on a non-combatant ship. If an enemy tries to disable your weapons, they're pretty likely to take off your nacelle instead.
__________________
One of Jeremiah Peabody's Polyunsaturated Quick-Dissolving Fast-Acting Pleasant-Tasting Green and Purple Pills
Major Chord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2008, 11:09 PM   #27
Unicron
Continuity Spackle
 
Unicron's Avatar
 
Location: Cybertron
Send a message via ICQ to Unicron
Re: Navigational Defletor?

They're definitely RCS units on Jackill's Fisher, so that seems the most logical choice to me anyway. No mention is made of whether the Fisher has distinct Bussard collectors or not.
__________________

"My dream is to eat candy and poop emeralds. I'm halfway successful."


Catbert, Evil Director of Human Resources
Unicron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6 2008, 12:43 PM   #28
Longinus
Commander
 
Longinus's Avatar
 
Re: Navigational Defletor?

That whole deflector dish issue has always bugged me. Most alien ships don't seem to have them and some Federation ships don't have them either. So why some ships have them while other, even ones based on the same technology, don't?
Longinus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 7 2008, 03:26 AM   #29
Unicron
Continuity Spackle
 
Unicron's Avatar
 
Location: Cybertron
Send a message via ICQ to Unicron
Re: Navigational Defletor?

The fact that the deflector might not be externally visible or identified doesn't mean it's not there.
__________________

"My dream is to eat candy and poop emeralds. I'm halfway successful."


Catbert, Evil Director of Human Resources
Unicron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 7 2008, 11:54 AM   #30
Longinus
Commander
 
Longinus's Avatar
 
Re: Navigational Defletor?

Unicron wrote: View Post
The fact that the deflector might not be externally visible or identified doesn't mean it's not there.
Of course. It just seems odd that some ships have these huge glowing deflectors and some don't. There must be a functional reason for the big deflectors, otherwise no ship would have one.
Longinus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
nav deflector, technobabble

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:14 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.