Michael Phelps - Is he human or metahuman?

[Neroon]

What is the record for most individual golds in a single Olympic games? I know that Spitz had only 4 out of his famous 7 golds in Munich. I'm not sure how many of Phelps' this year were individuals. Eric Heiden picked up 5 inidvidual golds in a winter games way back when. And I think Bonnie Blair did similarly after that.

None of this is meant to demean Phelps' achievement in ANY way though. He had a great team, no question, but he still had an inordinate amount of pressure on him.

[nevermore]

^He won 5 this year. 4 individual golds in 2004.

Overall, his 16 medals is second to a Soviet gymnast, who has 18 over 3 games. So, he needs 3 in 2012 to surpass that.

[Gryffindorian]

gblews wrote:

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No, but I sense you missed the point (I'm glad you laughed after writing that). He is a great swimmer who has accomplished something great and yes, he probably is the epitome of athletic prowess -- for a swimmer.

But the "epitome of athletic prowess" (in general), as you called him, the greatest athlete of all time as others have, uh, he is a great swimmer.

Speaking of missing the point, I believe you have done that as well. I was simply stating my own opinion. It seems to me you have nothing of value to contribute to this discussion, other than to contradict other people. You clearly disagreed when I stated my opinion of M. Phelps' athletic prowess without really stating why or backing it up with facts, which I have. Then you retracted by acknowledging that Phelps has the athletic prowess for a swimmer. It's like saying, "I don't like cheesecake; therefore, all cheesecake eaters suck." In such case, why don't you move along and get off my thread.

EDIT:

I would just like to quote the following from an article I read in the paper this morning:

Nine days, 17 swims. Five individual events, (to answer Neroon's question) three relays. Eight gold medals, seven world records.

[Neroon]

Thanks for the clarification on how many individual golds Phelps has won.

As to the hyperbole being tossed around in describing his achievements, it's more than understandable. Swimming is an incredibly tough discipline, measured in very fine and precise units. Races and medals are won or lost by hundredths of a second, just ask Dara Torres or Phelps himself. It's a sport requiring a complete workout of the body, as people like Bo Jackson can attest. It's of course impossible to denote a specific person as "the greatest athlete of all time", because there are too may eras - and influences - to crystalize it into one answer. There are just too many candidates for the title.

But any discussion MUST include Michael Phelps, or the argument is completely invalid.

[gblews]

Neroon wrote:

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Thanks for the clarification on how many individual golds Phelps has won.

As to the hyperbole being tossed around in describing his achievements, it's more than understandable. Swimming is an incredibly tough discipline, measured in very fine and precise units. Races and medals are won or lost by hundredths of a second, just ask Dara Torres or Phelps himself. It's a sport requiring a complete workout of the body,

Yes, and the same can be said of Track and Field athletes, specifically runners, particularly sprinters. I think sprinters are in a more difficult sport generally than swimmers, so are boxers and wrestlers (Greco-Roman not that foolishness on the CW).

All of aforementioned have to carry their own weight under the full brunt of gravity and in the case of the boxers and wrestlers, also fight an opponent -- swimmers don't. Additionally, swimmers have the benefit of performing in something like a zero g enviornment. Its no coincidence that people with injuries rehab in pools, its easier to move and provides less wear and tear on the body.

But any discussion MUST include Michael Phelps, or the argument is completely invalid.

Because other athletes have to fight the full brunt of gravity, while fighting other athletes, while still having to perform, I don't know any swimmer I'de list in my top ten greatest athlete. Now if we're talking about top ten aerobic athletes or best low impact cardio athletes, okay now we're talking swimmers. I don't put swimming on the same level as rhythmic gymnastics, but it ain't all that far away.

[Neroon]

I am not attempting to elevate swimmers above track & field athletes; simply that swimmers are at least an even accounting. You can discount the fact that swimmers are buoyed by the medium in which they perform, yet track stars for example doesn't have to worry about being drowned when they stop their motions. What happens to Carl Lewis if he stops his sprinting? He simply can sit down or stand and expend no more energy until such time as he's recovered. Any swimmer has to keep going or rely upon someone else to get them out of the water. So the medium you fele gives swimkmers an unfair advantage at the same time saddles them with a greater challenge simply for living. Each one has its own pros and cons, it's true.... but they tend to balance each other out rather than giving the edge to one or the other.

Sorry, I can't demote Phelps just because he's a swimmer.

[DWF]

Neroon wrote:

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I am not attempting to elevate swimmers above track & field athletes; simply that swimmers are at least an even accounting. You can discount the fact that swimmers are buoyed by the medium in which they perform, yet track stars for example doesn't have to worry about being drowned when they stop their motions. What happens to Carl Lewis if he stops his sprinting? He simply can sit down or stand and expend no more energy until such time as he's recovered. Any swimmer has to keep going or rely upon someone else to get them out of the water. So the medium you fele gives swimkmers an unfair advantage at the same time saddles them with a greater challenge simply for living. Each one has its own pros and cons, it's true.... but they tend to balance each other out rather than giving the edge to one or the other.

Sorry, I can't demote Phelps just because he's a swimmer.

Well people have died after running a marathon and I've never any swimmer get hurt like Alberto Jauntorena was the poor guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9RSScXe1gA

But I'd certatinly rank Usain Bolt's 100m dash victory ahead of most of Phelp's races and Bolt just started running the 100m dash recently and he's already got two world records in the event.

And of course that doesn't diminsh what Phelps, but I'm a long standing track and field fan.

[Timewalker]

TheArsenal wrote:

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His build is freakish. But freakish in the way Frankenstein would have been if designed by swim coaches. He's double jointed which gives him that crazy power in his turns, has the wing span of a plane, and flippers with unprecedented amount of flexibility instead of feet.

Almost literally built for the sport.

Since I watch Olympic coverage on CBC, we've been nearly Phelps-free. And thank goodness, because the one look I got at him makes me wonder about some of the things people say ("ooh, he's sexy...").

Ick. I don't find him "sexy." I find him rather creepy-looking, his ears stick out, and the expression on his face during one of the medal ceremonies appeared to be one of utter boredom ("ho hum, another one...").

And no, this is not sour grapes that Canada hasn't done well in swimming this time. We have done well in rowing and women's wrestling, so we've also got people to be pleased with. But nobody is putting them up on exaggerated pedestals or featuring them at the expense of other equally deserving athletes.

I think it's neat that Jamaican athletes did so well in the 100-m dash. Both men and women taking gold... they really have something to be proud of.

[gblews]

Neroon wrote:

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I am not attempting to elevate swimmers above track & field athletes; simply that swimmers are at least an even accounting. You can discount the fact that swimmers are buoyed by the medium in which they perform, yet track stars for example doesn't have to worry about being drowned when they stop their motions. What happens to Carl Lewis if he stops his sprinting? He simply can sit down or stand and expend no more energy until such time as he's recovered. Any swimmer has to keep going or rely upon someone else to get them out of the water. So the medium you fele gives swimkmers an unfair advantage at the same time saddles them with a greater challenge simply for living. Each one has its own pros and cons, it's true.... but they tend to balance each other out rather than giving the edge to one or the other.

Sorry, I can't demote Phelps just because he's a swimmer.

I think you're really reaching here. What Olympic swimmer worries about drowning? Much lesser swimmers than Olympians aren't even concerned about drowning. But have you ever seen a sprinter pull or tear a muscle going at full speed? Not only do they have to be concerned with stopping before further injury occurs, they have to worry about falling. Ever seen a hurdler fall? That is almost always horrendous.

If a swimmer pulls or tears a muscle, I would imagine they'd just stop and start to float on their own, or grab one of those lines marking the lanes. There is virtually no chance they'll actually drown with thousands of people around.

Swimming is a nice little sport, certainly deserving of being in the Olympics, and Phelps' accomplishment is noteworthy, but lets keep it in perspective. For instance, in 1968 Bob Beamon long jumped over 29 feet. At the time the Holy Grail for long jumpers was 24 feet if I recall correctly. Today, 40 years later, long jumpers are still a foot (more or less) away from matching what Beamon did. Many speculated that Beamon killed the event with that jump -- and for many years that was true. But we don't hear Beamon being called superhuman, yet what he did is a lot closer to "superhuman" than what Phelps has done.

Did any of the records Phelps set this Olympics compare to Beamon's? I don't think so. Congrats to him for his 8 gold medals, but they were in swimming so let there be an end to all the "metahuman" foolishness.

[RoJoHen]

As a swimmer, he is phenomenal. But I don't think his swimming abilities make him some kind of super human.

His diet and metabolism, however, absolutely blow my mind.

[DWF]

For instance, in 1968 Bob Beamon long jumped over 29 feet. At the time the Holy Grail for long jumpers was 24 feet if I recall correctly. Today, 40 years later, long jumpers are still a foot (more or less) away from matching what Beamon did. Many speculated that Beamon killed the event with that jump -- and for many years that was true. But we don't hear Beamon being called superhuman, yet what he did is a lot closer to "superhuman" than what Phelps has done.

No, there were jumpers in Beamon's era jumping 27 feet. World records in the long jump are alittle on the rare side it took some 25 years for Ralph Boston to beat Jesse Owens' long jump record that he set in 1935 and it was 22 years between Beamon's record and Mike Powell's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_jump#Men

And speaking of Jesse Owens he did set three worlds and equalled a fourth world record in 45 minutes, nobody in any other sport has ever equalled that performance that I know of.

[gblews]

DWF wrote:

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No, there were jumpers in Beamon's era jumping 27 feet. World records in the long jump are alittle on the rare side it took some 25 years for Ralph Boston to beat Jesse Owens' long jump record that he set in 1935 and it was 22 years between Beamon's record and Mike Powell's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_jump#Men

Thanks for the update. Obviously I don't follow Track like I used to. Still there has been little that has happened in any sport to match the magnitude of what Beamon did, when he did it.

I suppose I could be wrong but don't believe anyone was jumping 27 feet in 1968 or even 26 feet. In fact, I think it was some time before anyone jumped 25 ft. If I'm wrong on this let me know because I'm just going by memory.

[DWF]

gblews wrote:

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Thanks for the update. Obviously I don't follow Track like I used to. Still there has been little that has happened in any sport to match the magnitude of what Beamon did, when he did it.

I suppose I could be wrong but don't believe anyone was jumping 27 feet in 1968 or even 26 feet. In fact, I think it was some time before anyone jumped 25 ft. If I'm wrong on this let me know because I'm just going by memory.

Edwin Gourdin was the first over 25 feet and that was in 1923. When Ralph Boston and Igor Ter-Ovanesyan were passing the world record between they were regularally jumping over 27 feet.

Beamon's record was incredible but he wasn't able to jump beyond 26 feet after it. Carl Lewis however has a number of jumps 28 feet or more.

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/lis...id=M&year=2008

8.9529-4 1/2Mike Powell (US)08/30/918.90(A)29-2 1/2Bob Beamon (US)10/18/688.8729-1 1/2Carl Lewis (US) !08/30/918.86(A)29-1Robert Emmiyan (SU)05/22/878.8429-0----Lewis !12/31/088.7928-10 1/4----Lewis06/19/83i----Lewis01/27/848.7628-9----Lewis07/24/82----Lewis07/18/888.7528-8 1/2----Lewis08/16/87

[Gryffindorian]

gblews wrote:

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I think you're really reaching here. What Olympic swimmer worries about drowning? Much lesser swimmers than Olympians aren't even concerned about drowning. But have you ever seen a sprinter pull or tear a muscle going at full speed? Not only do they have to be concerned with stopping before further injury occurs, they have to worry about falling. Ever seen a hurdler fall? That is almost always horrendous.

If a swimmer pulls or tears a muscle, I would imagine they'd just stop and start to float on their own, or grab one of those lines marking the lanes. There is virtually no chance they'll actually drown with thousands of people around.

Swimming is a nice little sport, certainly deserving of being in the Olympics, and Phelps' accomplishment is noteworthy, but lets keep it in perspective. For instance, in 1968 Bob Beamon long jumped over 29 feet. At the time the Holy Grail for long jumpers was 24 feet if I recall correctly. Today, 40 years later, long jumpers are still a foot (more or less) away from matching what Beamon did. Many speculated that Beamon killed the event with that jump -- and for many years that was true. But we don't hear Beamon being called superhuman, yet what he did is a lot closer to "superhuman" than what Phelps has done.

Did any of the records Phelps set this Olympics compare to Beamon's? I don't think so. Congrats to him for his 8 gold medals, but they were in swimming so let there be an end to all the "metahuman" foolishness.

You know, there is a word called "exaggeration." Feel free to look it up. When I likened M. Phelps to a superhuman we only read about in comic books, I was, of course, exaggerating.

You, on the other hand, have constantly dismissed M. Phelps' athletic achievements as if they were insignificant, or at worst, non-existent. That simply is NOT the case here.

From my perspective, all I'm saying is that I have more respect and admiration for M. Phelps (as I do for so many Olympic athletes and swimmers) than these so-called superstar American baseball/basketball/football players that many people seem to worship. To each his own, I suppose. One man's hero is another man's villain.

[gblews]

Drone36929 wrote:

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You know, there is a word called "exaggeration." Feel free to look it up. When I likened M. Phelps to a superhuman we only read about in comic books, I was, of course, exaggerating.

You, on the other hand, have constantly dismissed M. Phelps' athletic achievements as if they were insignificant, or at worst, non-existent. That simply is NOT the case here.

From my perspective, all I'm saying is that I have more respect and admiration for M. Phelps (as I do for so many Olympic athletes and swimmers) than these so-called superstar American baseball/basketball/football players that many people seem to worship. To each his own, I suppose. One man's hero is another man's villain.