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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old August 12 2008, 12:05 AM   #46
BrotherBenny
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Re: On "Ex Machina" & Crew

David Henderson wrote: View Post
Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
I've already written one novel, unpublished, a few years ago and now finally ready to write another one. Once I have my original stuff published I fully intend to go for a Star Trek story and have three plans in development. But those have gone on the backburner while my original-universe stuff takes off.
You have a novel out? Cool! If you don't mind my asking, which one is it?
Keyword bolded above.

davidh
Thanks David, I was gonna highlight that.
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Old August 12 2008, 06:03 PM   #47
Rush Limborg
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Re: On "Ex Machina" & Crew

I think you're still a little confused on how this works. You send them a submission, and primarily they're using that to judge how well you follow the instructions, writing style, etc; as I understand it, it's extraordinarily unlikely that the book you submit will be one they publish (think about it - how many novels that fit the submission guidelines HAVE been published recently?) They're doing that so they know you can follow instructions and write. After that, you pitch stories to them and they give assignments to you, and you write the books from the ground up collaboratively.

The odds of the novel you're writing now getting published are effectively zero, even if you do get hired by Pocket.
I said it before, and I'll say it again. My current novel will not be my first Trek Book. I was fully aware of the guidelines when I statred writing.

The reason I wrote this book down, basically on spec, was so that I would not have to remember the scenes that I really wanted in the book. This will, in all probability, be the only spec-novel that I will ever write, Trek-wise. I am a firm believer in the guidelines, and once I am done with all on my agenda, I will follow the guidelines to the letter.

When I submit this book, I will send only what they require (The first few chapters, the synopsis, etc.). If they want changes, I will work with them. Promise.

Keyword bolded above.
Darn. Can't believed I missed that....
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Old August 12 2008, 07:31 PM   #48
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Re: On "Ex Machina" & Crew

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
I think you're still a little confused on how this works. You send them a submission, and primarily they're using that to judge how well you follow the instructions, writing style, etc; as I understand it, it's extraordinarily unlikely that the book you submit will be one they publish (think about it - how many novels that fit the submission guidelines HAVE been published recently?) They're doing that so they know you can follow instructions and write. After that, you pitch stories to them and they give assignments to you, and you write the books from the ground up collaboratively.

The odds of the novel you're writing now getting published are effectively zero, even if you do get hired by Pocket.
I said it before, and I'll say it again. My current novel will not be my first Trek Book. I was fully aware of the guidelines when I statred writing.

The reason I wrote this book down, basically on spec, was so that I would not have to remember the scenes that I really wanted in the book. This will, in all probability, be the only spec-novel that I will ever write, Trek-wise. I am a firm believer in the guidelines, and once I am done with all on my agenda, I will follow the guidelines to the letter.

When I submit this book, I will send only what they require (The first few chapters, the synopsis, etc.). If they want changes, I will work with them. Promise.
You're still not understanding what I said.

It's not that they're going to want "changes". It's that the odds of that story getting published are effectively zero, in any form, ever, period. If they like your submission, they will invite you to pitch several stories to them, and they will work with you to develop a new story.

I'm not talking about submitting properly. I'm saying the novel you're writing is fan fiction. It won't be your first, second, or any trek book.

AND the submission you send probably won't be published either. It's a test. The books would be developed after you were hired.

Which is not to say you're doing anything wrong - far from it; writing a novel on your own time is an outstanding way to test your writing chops and make sure you have the devotion it takes. I don't see anything wrong with that at all, and I certainly don't have either the will or the writing talent to see something like that through to my own satisfaction. But it will not get published. No published trek book in the past 5 years or so was written before the author was hired. It's just the way it works now.
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Old August 13 2008, 12:41 AM   #49
Rush Limborg
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Re: On "Ex Machina" & Crew

^I hear ya, Thrawn. Still, I'll fight to get it published like PAD fought for Q-in-Law. If Pocket makes it painfully clear that they don't want it published, wheather due to story problems or their publishing policy, then I'll at least have the satisfaction of having it written.

And as you noted, this publishing tradition hasn't exactly been around since the beginning. Perhaps someday, it will change....

Who knows? Maybe I'll have it come out at the peak of my career --a kind of "At long last --Mr. Rush's 'lost' novel." (Scary thought....)

At any rate, thanks for the input, y'all!

Now... shall we get back on topic?
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Old August 13 2008, 03:10 AM   #50
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Re: On "Ex Machina" & Crew

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
^I hear ya, Thrawn. Still, I'll fight to get it published like PAD fought for Q-in-Law. If Pocket makes it painfully clear that they don't want it published, wheather due to story problems or their publishing policy, then I'll at least have the satisfaction of having it written.

And as you noted, this publishing tradition hasn't exactly been around since the beginning. Perhaps someday, it will change....
Actually it has been around since the beginning. In any licensed fiction, the copyright owner (CBS in this case) has to approve the outline for any novel before it gets written. After all, they own the property, and they're entitled to say what's okay and what isn't.

And if you try to fight to get your way on a first tie-in novel, you'll never get any tie-in novels published. When you write tie-ins, you're working for someone else, being allowed to make use of their property. They won't want to work with you unless you prove that you're willing to follow their lead. If you insist on having things your own way from the start, they won't be interested. Peter David was able to fight for what he wanted with Q-in-Law because he was a proven veteran who'd earned their trust -- and because he had Majel Roddenberry on his side. It takes time to earn that degree of trust. If you want to get on the team, you have to show them you can be a team player.

If you want total creative freedom, write original fiction, or else just stick to fanfiction.
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Old August 13 2008, 09:24 AM   #51
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Re: On "Ex Machina" & Crew

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
I'll fight to get it published like PAD fought for Q-in-Law.
PAD was fighting Richard Arnold (representing Gene Roddenberry), not Paramount nor Pocket Books. And he was able to enlist the sway of Mrs Gene Roddenberry and Mrs Lwaxana Troi, two very formidable reinforcements.
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Old August 13 2008, 04:26 PM   #52
Rush Limborg
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Re: On "Ex Machina" & Crew

Actually it has been around since the beginning. In any licensed fiction, the copyright owner (CBS in this case) has to approve the outline for any novel before it gets written. After all, they own the property, and they're entitled to say what's okay and what isn't.

And if you try to fight to get your way on a first tie-in novel, you'll never get any tie-in novels published. When you write tie-ins, you're working for someone else, being allowed to make use of their property. They won't want to work with you unless you prove that you're willing to follow their lead. If you insist on having things your own way from the start, they won't be interested. Peter David was able to fight for what he wanted with Q-in-Law because he was a proven veteran who'd earned their trust -- and because he had Majel Roddenberry on his side. It takes time to earn that degree of trust. If you want to get on the team, you have to show them you can be a team player.

If you want total creative freedom, write original fiction, or else just stick to fanfiction.
As I said before, I will wait to send the synopsis of the book I am currently writing until I am a proven veteran.

My first handfull of books will be (mostly) in line with the guidelines, and I'll probably work with the publishers a lot, story-wise. There are many ideas I have that need some embellishing. I will do those first.

When I am a big-name, like PAD (or you, Chris ), then I will propose to them the book in question.

I will therefore take all your advice to heart. You probably won't hear about this particular book for a while. But I'll get it done. Once I'm a proven veteran, of course.

I will take your advice, and warnings, to heart. I give my word as a Trekker.

(Khan voice) Now... if you will excuse me, Captain, I find myself growing fatigued. Let us get back on topic, shall we?
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Old August 13 2008, 04:28 PM   #53
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Re: On "Ex Machina" & Crew

And he was able to enlist the sway of Mrs Gene Roddenberry and Mrs Lwaxana Troi, two very formidable reinforcements.
Ah... aren't they kinda the same person?
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Old August 13 2008, 05:10 PM   #54
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Re: On "Ex Machina" & Crew

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
As I said before, I will wait to send the synopsis of the book I am currently writing until I am a proven veteran.

My first handfull of books will be (mostly) in line with the guidelines, and I'll probably work with the publishers a lot, story-wise. There are many ideas I have that need some embellishing. I will do those first.

When I am a big-name, like PAD (or you, Chris ), then I will propose to them the book in question.
Ah, the blind and unwavering confidence of youth.

Let us get back on topic, shall we?
And I just love how you think you have the right to the final word. Unlike your namesake, however, you have to share this forum with other people.
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Old August 13 2008, 05:50 PM   #55
Rush Limborg
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Re: On "Ex Machina" & Crew

And I just love how you think you have the right to the final word. Unlike your namesake, however, you have to share this forum with other people.
Ah, Mr. Leisner... I seem to recall a post from you that had a when you thought I was going off topic....

And yes... I do appreciate being right. Doesn't everyone?

I like sharing threads. But it seemed eminently clear to me that the discussion was going way off topic.

Ah, the blind and unwavering confidence of youth.
Well, hey... could happen.... You yourself are proof of the following statement, as I recall from reading Voyages of Imagination.

"You put your mind to it, you can accomplish a lot."

Now, can we please return to Ex Machina?
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Old August 13 2008, 05:57 PM   #56
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Re: On "Ex Machina" & Crew

^ You appear to be driving. Where are we going?
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Old August 13 2008, 05:59 PM   #57
Rush Limborg
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Re: On "Ex Machina" & Crew

Back on topic: I really liked, Chris, how the book answered a question that has bothered us since Enterprise. Namely, "How come Archer's Enterprise isn't among the pictures in the rec room in TMP."

The answer is: It was supposed to be, but in all the excitement of the refit, someone put the wrong picture on the wall --a picture of a Vulcan ship from that era.

By the way, I looked it up, and lo and behold, the Vulcan ships from Enterprise DO look like that picture! I didn't notice that before!

Clever!
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Old August 13 2008, 06:02 PM   #58
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Re: On "Ex Machina" & Crew

^ You appear to be driving. Where are we going?
Glad ya asked, mate!

We are Boldly Going...Where No One Has Gone...Before....
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Old August 13 2008, 07:54 PM   #59
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Re: On "Ex Machina" & Crew

Spread the word, people. We all have to go and buy extra copies of Ex Machina so Pocket gives Chris the go ahead for the next one.

On three.

One...two...three...
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Old August 13 2008, 10:39 PM   #60
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Re: On "Ex Machina" & Crew

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
And he was able to enlist the sway of Mrs Gene Roddenberry and Mrs Lwaxana Troi, two very formidable reinforcements.
Ah... aren't they kinda the same person?
A roddenberry on the bush is worth trois in the hand.
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