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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old August 4 2008, 09:42 PM   #1
Darth_Pazuzu
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Speculation: A possible Jem'Hadar/Son'a alliance??

I know I'm just engaging in idle speculation here, but I've got an idea for a possible future direction for Star Trek fiction.

Now, it's already been established (in the movie Insurrection and in the two-part opener of Deep Space Nine's final season, Image In The Sand / Shadows And Symbols - I can't remember now which specific episode!), that the Son'a are a manufacturer of kectracel-white, the drug that the Jem'Hadar are physically dependent on. Given what's been going on in the DS9-R series, specifically in David George III's Olympus Descending - it certainly looks like


Now if worse comes to worst, the Jem'Hadar could once again establish a presence in the Alpha Quadrant, as a subject race under the Son'a. This could create new problems for the Federation, not to mention the Bak'u who still live in the so-called Briar Patch! I think there's a possibility here for a TNG/DS9-Relaunch crossover epic, with Captains Picard and Kira, and Starfleet's two greatest crews, to join forces to fight against the Son'a and the Jem'Hadar!
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Old August 4 2008, 09:47 PM   #2
Darth_Pazuzu
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Re: Speculation: A possible Jem'Hadar/Son'a alliance??

I wasn't supposed to do that, was I?

Sorry...
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Old August 4 2008, 09:54 PM   #3
Omega Particle
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Re: Speculation: A possible Jem'Hadar/Son'a alliance??

Darth_Pazuzu wrote: View Post
Now if worse comes to worst, the Jem'Hadar could once again establish a presence in the Alpha Quadrant, as a subject race under the Son'a. This could create new problems for the Federation, not to mention the Bak'u who still live in the so-called Briar Patch! I think there's a possibility here for a TNG/DS9-Relaunch crossover epic, with Captains Picard and Kira, and Starfleet's two greatest crews, to join forces to fight against the Son'a and the Jem'Hadar!
I know that it wasn't explicitly stated, but I thought that the events of 'Star Trek: Insurrection' put an end to the Son'a? That they had started to be reintegrated into the Baku community.

But a small aside, there was always an inbuilt absurdity to the Son'a...the outcast refugees from a community of 600 (which therefore means they couldn't possibly be all that numerous), who left the Baku 100 years prior to the events of Insurrection, could not possibly have grown their own 'civilisation' to become a power large enough to conquer two entire races. That always struck me as quite far-fetched, unless the populations of the two races were so small as to make it more probable for them to conquer them.

Which also probably casts a little doubt upon your speculation... The Son'a can't really be anything more than a small gang of thugs, considering that their numbers must be pretty small based upon the evidence. I doubt there was a whole lot more to the Son'a population than what we were exposed to in the movie.
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Old August 4 2008, 10:01 PM   #4
Darth_Pazuzu
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Re: Speculation: A possible Jem'Hadar/Son'a alliance??

Omega Particle wrote: View Post
I know that it wasn't explicitly stated, but I thought that the events of 'Star Trek: Insurrection' put an end to the Son'a? That they had started to be reintegrated into the Baku community.

But a small aside, there was always an inbuilt absurdity to the Son'a...the outcast refugees from a community of 600 (which therefore means they couldn't possibly be all that numerous), who left the Baku 100 years prior to the events of Insurrection, could not possibly have grown their own 'civilisation' to become a power large enough to conquer two entire races. That always struck me as quite far-fetched, unless the populations of the two races were so small as to make it more probable for them to conquer them.

Which also probably casts a little doubt upon your speculation... The Son'a can't really be anything more than a small gang of thugs, considering that their numbers must be pretty small based upon the evidence. I doubt there was a whole lot more to the Son'a population than what we were exposed to in the movie.
I kind of thought the same thing after seeing Insurrection, but the dialogue between Damar and Weyoun in the aforementioned DS9 two-parter - the events of which seem to take place after the events of Insurrection - would seem to establish that the Son'a still seemed to be a "going concern." (Of course, I could be absolutely dead wrong about the chronology. I actually haven't double-checked the stardates!)
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Old August 4 2008, 10:48 PM   #5
Emh
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Re: Speculation: A possible Jem'Hadar/Son'a alliance??

Darth_Pazuzu, this kind of detailed speculation of future story lines for possible Trek stories in Trek Literature can't be allowed for liability reasons for the authors who regularly post here. However, the speculation is interesting, so I'm going to send this over to General Trek Discussion.
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Old August 4 2008, 10:49 PM   #6
Trent Roman
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Re: Speculation: A possible Jem'Hadar/Son'a alliance??

Omega Particle wrote: View Post
But a small aside, there was always an inbuilt absurdity to the Son'a...the outcast refugees from a community of 600 (which therefore means they couldn't possibly be all that numerous), who left the Baku 100 years prior to the events of Insurrection, could not possibly have grown their own 'civilisation' to become a power large enough to conquer two entire races. That always struck me as quite far-fetched, unless the populations of the two races were so small as to make it more probable for them to conquer them.
It is believable, if one assumes those races were at an early stage of technological development when the Son'a conquered them. Such species would not have had the means to effectively resist the disproportionate force the Son'a could bring to bear (and the Son'a, as demonstrated in their attitude towards the Bak'u, are not above mass slaughter to get their way). Nor does in necessarily follow that the native populations would have wanted to resist beings of such evident power. Depending on their pre-existing social structures, it could have been trading one set of despotic leaders for others capable of offering a better lifestyle through technology. And then there's the Ferengi from False Profits, who--though only two--managed to establish themselves as the head of the local civilization through deft manipulation of local beliefs and their technological superiority.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
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Old August 4 2008, 11:38 PM   #7
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Re: Speculation: A possible Jem'Hadar/Son'a alliance??

I'm struck with a conversation between a Jem'Hadar and Weyoun in the first DS9 episode he was introduced in (the one where the Jem'Hadar team up with the crew of the Defiant to tackle renegade Jem'Hadar with an Iconian Gateway).

The loyal First tells Weyoun that it isn't the white that keeps them obedient to the Founders - it is their loyalty to their gods.

The Jem'Hadar seem like a proud race, who know they are quite strong. I haven't read the books you're talking about, but based on what you're suggesting, I would believe that rather than submit to being the warrior pets of the Son'a, they would instead either make a fair deal with the Son'a for Ketracel-White, or simply learn how to produce it themselves (perhaps forcing the Son'a to show them how, via force).
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Old August 5 2008, 05:09 AM   #8
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Speculation: A possible Jem'Hadar/Son'a alliance??

This would be about future trek, right? As tempted as I am to move it back to Trek Lit to annoy Emh, I'll move it to Future of Trek.
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Old August 5 2008, 09:22 PM   #9
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Speculation: A possible Jem'Hadar/Son'a alliance??

The loyal First tells Weyoun that it isn't the white that keeps them obedient to the Founders - it is their loyalty to their gods.
Exactly. The jury is way out on whether removing their dependence on the Dominion for k-white would do anything other than make the Jems better Dominion fighters.

They never gave me the impression that the k-white's purpose was to coerce them to fight for the Dominion. It appeared to be their food source, in the sense that it's a substance they are required to consume for survival. I don't know if they can also consume other things, but it doesn't really matter, since consuming those things won't keep them alive. It's like eating popcorn when your body needs protein.

Having a food source with such a narrow supply chain is a detriment to the Jems. It would be so much better if they could simply live off the land of any planet they happen to be on, the way humans can.

Forget the Son'a, there's a more interesting angle to pursue: Dr. Bashir's k-white cure. He might see it as a humanitarian necessity, and if it were possible to re-create, the Federation would have the moral obligation to make it available to the Jems. The interesting dilemma is the fact that the Feds don't know whether this humanitarian gesture will help or hurt them.

Also, the Feds thought nothing of blowing up k-white facilities to hurt the Dominion - that's basically destroying your enemy's food supply, knowing they can't switch to eating something else to survive. Is that really ethical? And if that's ethical, then why would it be a humanitarian necessity to turn over a cure to the Jems and take the risk of disaster?
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Old August 6 2008, 01:30 AM   #10
hellsgate
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Re: Speculation: A possible Jem'Hadar/Son'a alliance??

I could see this as a good story challenge.

"Star Trek: Protector"
"Children Of Lesser Gods"
or
"First, Do No Harm"

Timeline: 2380
Synopsis: Ethical Debates continue at Starfleet Medical And Starfleet Science pertaining to their obligation to follow the 'Prime Directive' of The Hippocratic Oath, "First, Do No Harm". The U.S.S. Protector is assigned to monitor the situation within The Jem Hadar via certain little-discussed humanitarism-based stipulations of the Gamma Quadrant Peaceful Exploration Treaty. The Son'a. Long thought reconciled & absorbed into The Baku, Starfleet Intelligence has been discretely observing The Son'a frequently associating with known Dominion intermediaries (go-betweens) such as the Karemmans.
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Old August 8 2008, 05:24 AM   #11
Dayton3
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Re: Speculation: A possible Jem'Hadar/Son'a alliance??

Technically they already are allies.

In one of the Dominion War episodes, Weyoun refers to detaching a force of Jem'hadar to guard Ketracel White supplies.

Cardassian leader Damar replies "Can't the Son'a guard it?"

You don't have alien races you aren't allied with guarding one of your key supplies.

The Son'a were one of the worst ideas ever to appear in a Trek movie for the reasons listed above.

There is no way they could be a major force if they are made up of a handful of renegades.
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Old August 9 2008, 02:09 PM   #12
Chemahkuu
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Re: Speculation: A possible Jem'Hadar/Son'a alliance??

Hardly, in the film the Son'a were said to have dominated two worlds nearby, something a few renegades could hardly do. That would have given them hoards of slaves to do they're bidding, maybe even a home world of their own outside the Patch so they would have had access to a large amount of resources.

They must also have facilities to build those battleships and the other various vessels we see them operate, not to mention the Collector.

The facility may well be situated in another region of the Brier Patch or on a heavily defended area on one of the 2/3 planets they hold dominion over.

So yes I could see them being able to do so.
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Old August 9 2008, 06:34 PM   #13
hellsgate
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Re: Speculation: A possible Jem'Hadar/Son'a alliance??

Let's see someone tackle this idea in the Fan Fiction forum.

A heavily defended 2 or 3 worlds under the boot heel of a Dominion-Son'a Alliance, found-out by Starfleet Intelligence as capable of reproducing Ketracel White for the Dominion/Jem Hadar, whom are preparing to make another play for Earth. To bring Starfleet & its allies to its knees, as the crown jewel in the effort to push back a struggling Federation / A.Q. Alliance. They're feeling bold enough to attack a burning Quo'nos after the brief appearance of the Hur'q & the perpetual threat of Borg Attack, in addition to the Son'a feeling intimidated by the Vorta's increasing pressure to attack before the S.C.E. can distribute Voyager's technology from The Delta Quadrant.
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Old August 11 2008, 01:21 PM   #14
captainvector
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Re: Speculation: A possible Jem'Hadar/Son'a alliance??

I like the premise. However believe it would be better if the Jem'Hadar were able to determine their own future. Instead of being slaves again, but to new masters!
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