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Old August 21 2008, 11:09 PM   #301
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Re: Watchmen Trailer Online

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
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Except that if you put a fat Dreiberg into a rubber muscle suit, that's even more cos-play.
The scary thing is, that's pretty close to what Dreiberg is supposed to look like! (less the hat, of course!)
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Old August 23 2008, 06:30 PM   #302
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Re: Watchmen Trailer Online

I just finished reading Watchmen shortly ago. Great book.

Now I felt safe reading deeper into this thread.

I have to say I can get past most of the casting, but the choice for Ozymandias is still bothering me. Not only does he look like a kid, but everything I'm seeing of him so far has


*EDIT*

My God, this is what I get for skipping ahead to make my comment. Missed this:

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
Matthew Goode who is playing Adrian Veidt was interviewed in Total Film:

And I was saying to Zack, 'why does he give all his parent's money away? Could we say that his parents were Nazis and that's why he gave his wealth away?' Maybe he lived in Germany before he came over to America. So there the businessman, the super-successful immigrant American, but then when he's with the Watchmen he's got a slightly German accent, that comes out when he's more manic.
Goode sounds like a fucking moron. I'm quickly growing concerned about this movie. If they fuck up Veidt, the movie will be in big trouble.

*EDIT2*

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
misskim86 wrote: View Post
I think it's a cool thing they made the characters look more bad ass, think about it! They are supposed to look like bad ass super heroes, not insecure guys/girls. Even though they might be insecure and doubtful their appearance should always be that of the bad ass super hero. It's a great move by the director.
No... they're not. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE STORY... what if "real people" in the "real world" did this stuff.
*ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* We have a winner!

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Old August 23 2008, 08:34 PM   #303
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Re: Watchmen Trailer Online

^He is a kid, relatively speaking. In the book, Veidt is supposed to be 48, IIRC. The actor is 30. That's a huge difference, and I wonder if it's going to affect the background of the character.
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Old August 24 2008, 02:08 AM   #304
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Re: Watchmen Trailer Online

Well he's 48 at the end of the book, it makes sense to caste slightly younger actors if they're going to be doing some of the flashback sequences.
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Old August 24 2008, 02:11 AM   #305
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Re: Watchmen Trailer Online

Hurm.
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Old August 24 2008, 04:10 AM   #306
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Re: Watchmen Trailer Online

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Well he's 48 at the end of the book, it makes sense to caste slightly younger actors if they're going to be doing some of the flashback sequences.
That's one of the issues with why "Watchmen" would really be unfilmable (as Moore has always maintained).

Characters like, say, The Comedian, show up at about 19, through their mid-60s. And yet have to be, consistently, "the same person." That's easy to do on paper, but far more difficult to do on-screen in a plausible fashion. Laurie has to show up at JUST 16, and nearly 40. And the list goes on.

Can they "fudge" that in a 2-hour, highly-abbreviated version of the story? MAYBE. But they can't possibly do it perfectly.

Veidt, the first time we see him, is about as old as the actor playing the part is on-screen... that's in the mid-60s. The film's main action takes place in the late 80s... more than 20 years later.

If it were up to me, I'd have had to cast different actors for the "60s" and "80s" versions of these characters (much less the 40s versions of a couple of 'em!). You can do Sally Jupiter with "age makeup" possibly... but not Eddie Blake.... not all the way through. Ages 19 to 65 is waaaaay too much of a gap to do, believably, with a single actor.

Veidt's casting by a single actor COULD have worked... but it would have had to be an exceptional actor both in terms of skill and in terms of APPEARANCE, and there'd still be one hell of a makeup chair experience involved. As it is... well, we'll see, but so far I'm skeptical.
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Old August 24 2008, 07:19 AM   #307
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Re: Watchmen Trailer Online

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
That's one of the issues with why "Watchmen" would really be unfilmable (as Moore has always maintained).
Really? Aren't there like zillions of movies that have the same characters depicted in a wide range of ages? One of the more interesting movies coming out this year involves Brad Pitt going backwards in age, and has to depict everyone else going up in age. I don't think it's that big a deal. Even a cheesy movie like the X-men did a decent job showing Patrick Stewart at a younger age.
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Old August 24 2008, 01:37 PM   #308
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Re: Watchmen Trailer Online

It's very easy with todays makeup to make people older/younger
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Old August 24 2008, 01:53 PM   #309
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Re: Watchmen Trailer Online

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
Laurie has to show up at JUST 16, and nearly 40.
I'm sure the 35-year-old Laurie would kick your ass for that remark.

Veidt, the first time we see him, is about as old as the actor playing the part is on-screen... that's in the mid-60s.
That would only be if they tell the film in a linear fashion. The first time we see him in the book is when Rorschach visits his office in 1985.
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Old August 24 2008, 03:04 PM   #310
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Re: Watchmen Trailer Online

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
Laurie has to show up at JUST 16, and nearly 40.
I'm sure the 35-year-old Laurie would kick your ass for that remark.
Well, I hope not, since I'm older than that myself... though not quite as flabby as Dreiberg!
Veidt, the first time we see him, is about as old as the actor playing the part is on-screen... that's in the mid-60s.
That would only be if they tell the film in a linear fashion. The first time we see him in the book is when Rorschach visits his office in 1985.
That's what I meant... "first" meaning "first in the timeline" not "first in the storytelling sequence.

There are actors... plenty of 'em... who could pull off the "older/younger" thing successfully, aided by makeup. And there are some where it just looks GOOFY. It takes a specific sort of facial structure and body structure and so forth, not to mention a particularly good actor.

For those who just went off "lecturing" about how it CAN be done... guess ya didn't really read what I said. And for anyone who wants to see the CREEPY techniques used for the guys in "X-Men" to de-age them, well... that wasn't really a very successful effect. Anytime the audience says "wow, what a cool effect"... THAT EFFECT IS A FAILURE. The audience should never be drawn out of their suspension of disbelief by an effect... it should just be REAL to them.

The trick is not to give us something that the audience will see as "an actor in makeup, intended to look older." If that's what we get, then the film has failed in that regard. What we need to get is a 100% believable transition from one age to the next... which can be done but is very difficult to achieve and very rarely done. I've seen a few cases where it has been done successfully... and lots more cases where I've seen "the actor in old age makeup" instead of seeing "the character at a later time."

There's a difference. And in this flick, which needs to feel REAL if it's going to succeed in telling the story as intended, I think that the latter is what's required... far more than it would be in a more "mundane" film.
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Old August 24 2008, 03:10 PM   #311
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Re: Watchmen Trailer Online

^I don't care how old you are...go try telling a woman anywhere in her 30's that she looks 40...hell, go try telling a woman who is 40 that she looks 40...then factor in the woman being somebody who can whip several times her weight in armed muggers. Go on, tell me how it works out.
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Old August 24 2008, 03:24 PM   #312
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Re: Watchmen Trailer Online

It's not hard at all to age people or make them look younger, seriously. Jackass did it like 8 years ago, they made Johnny Knoxville look like 80 and another guy too and everyone believed it when they walked outside, and that was THEIR budget. I'm sure a movie budget in 2008 could make miracles
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Old August 24 2008, 03:45 PM   #313
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Re: Watchmen Trailer Online

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It's not hard at all to age people or make them look younger, seriously. Jackass did it like 8 years ago, they made Johnny Knoxville look like 80 and another guy too and everyone believed it when they walked outside, and that was THEIR budget. I'm sure a movie budget in 2008 could make miracles
Oh, it's very difficult to do well... just look at how many flicks have had it done poorly.

I'm not saying it can't be done... and I'm sure (though I have no interest in ever watching "Jackass") that Knoxville could be made up in a convincing fashion by someone really good at their art.

But when you looked that that, did you see "Knoxville in makeup" or did you see "what Knoxville will look like when he's old?" Is it something that you were able to believe, as you watched that sequence... that you were seeing exactly what he'd look like if he was really that old?

You can't make a person's skin become thinner with makeup, just for example... yet that's absolutely one of the effects of aging. I'm sure that you could be made up, by someone with a lot of skill, to be able to pass unrecognized as yourself. But could you be made up so that you'd be able to pass as YOURSELF at a much later time in your life?

Could Nimoy play "young Spock" in the upcoming Trek movie with sufficient makeup work? Could Shatner play "young Kirk?" Could Nichols play "young Uhura?" Nahhhhhh....

This is the problem... you either end up with what is fairly obvious makeup work, or you end up with recasting. Yet we all know, instinctively, how peoples' appearance changes over time... and when we see something that doesn't match up, it can be jarring.

VERY few people can do age makeup really well. Rick Baker did an outstanding job on Dustin Hoffman in "Little Big Man" for example, but that's a matter of ARTIST SKILL... and even that wasn't 100% convincing, though it remains the best example I've ever seen.
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Old August 24 2008, 11:16 PM   #314
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Re: Watchmen Trailer Online

That's why I said it's best to cast someone roughly in the middle of the age range of the character as you're never going to get someone in their 60's to look like a teenager (for the record, the X-Men effect was weird and looked waxy) just as it'd be increasingly hard to age a very young person. On the other hand, getting a middle-aged person to look younger is something Hollywood is famous, nay, infamous for and making them look a few decades older isn't so big a deal.

Casting multiple actors per role works fine on some films and quite necessary in the kind of film that follows a character from childhood onwards, but there's usually one or two significant jumps in narrative so the new actor doesn't jar. Not so much of a big deal when, most of them are just going from early to late 20's (if memory serves) to late middle age. A single actor and a little fineness in make-up and lighting makes for a much smoother progression. Also, hiring several actors per part would cost a fair bit more while asking lead actors to spend 4-6 hours in the make-up chair is hardly unusual, even on some TV shows, never mind the movies.
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Old August 24 2008, 11:55 PM   #315
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Re: Watchmen Trailer Online

This whole discussion is giving me bad "Too Short a Season" flashbacks...*shudder*.

In this case, if they do plan to address the character's age via make-up, I'd say the age difference isn't so great that it would require a lot of effort or suspension of disbelief. I guess it all comes down to how convincing the actor is.
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