Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

[stonester1]

First time in many years. This is how it struck me.

My God, even worse than I remember it. Cheap effects, out of character moments, illogical things that threw you out of the story scattered like pigeon droppings.

Like the worst episodes of TOS, still fun to watch these guys play these characters, and there were character moments enjoyable to watch.

Kirk is NEVER going to at any moment let some religious nut take over his ship. He WILL establish/reestablish control before anything else.

Scotty walking into a wall.

And more. Moments that just had me going WTF?

The thing, the ONLY thing, this movie has going for it are character moments, and mostly those that have nothing to do with the main plot.

But this thing, overall, was a TURD.

Oh, and Spice Williams is hot as a lady Klingon. Call me crazy.

[Good Will Riker]

^^^

Well, what did you think of the film that came after it Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country?

[stonester1]

TUC? Very good film. Still a few "forced humor" moments, but the rest of the movie was so strong, they are very minor irritants.

On the other hand, with TFF, the movie is stinking up the joint, there is nothing to flush the "forced humor" turds. So there it is, a festering swamp.

But yeah, love TUC.

[arch101]

The good:

-Jerry Goldsmith's score
-Herman Zimmerman's production design
-Laurence Luckinbill's performance
-First appearance of more varied Klingon makeup/costume styles
-Yosemite always looks good on a big screen

The bad:
-Everything else

I swear, this movie gave me the biggest headache when I saw it in the theater in '89. I can honestly say I've only watched it 3 or 4 times in all these years.

[The Old Mixer]

arch101 wrote:

---

-Laurence Luckinbill's performance

If he'd been playing a human character, I might agree. As it was, Sybok was very poorly realized. An "emotional Vulcan" could have been portrayed as somebody who was Vulcan first, and emtional second. As it was, he came off more as a rather gregarious human who just happened to have pointy ears. There was nothing Vulcan about him beyond the superficial.

He even contradicted what we were always told about Vulcans--that they learned to suppress their emotions because they were such a violent people. An emotional Vulcan should be more of a scary bastard.

[Sharr Khan]

An "emotional Vulcan" could have been portrayed as somebody who was Vulcan first, and emotional second.

Why? That undermines the point... which was rather abundant that Vulcans originally, embrace their emotions (for good or ill). I'm actually hard pressed how one can even make a distinction in this regard? How does one behave Vulcan first and emotional second? How does a human? What makes a Vulcan, Vulcan beyond biology? What does it mean to be Vulcan, that you shed your emotions? But Vulcans existed as emotional creatures before Surak and as far as I know were still Vulcans... so lack of emotions can't be a defining characteristic as all indications are that is a chosen state of being and a philosophy.

He even contradicted what we were always told about Vulcans--that they learned to suppress their emotions because they were such a violent people. An emotional Vulcan should be more of a scary bastard.

You're applying a rather binary process of thought to something that is more then likely rather nuanced. If Vulcans can have strong emotions to their detriment, they can also have strong positive emotions as well.

The only contradiction is perhaps Sybok undermines an assumption you likely made (that many tend to make) about preSurak Vulcan and how the people of the planet conducted themselves before "logic" enlightened them.

Sharr

[stonester1]

I have to give props to David Warner, too. He owned the screen when he was on.

And yeah, the score was good.

[stonester1]

I also didn't buy Sybok as Spock's half brother. Just felt tacked on.

Would have been better if he'd been a Vulcan Spock was close to as they grew up, a maverick who treated Spock decently when they were younger, hung with the half human that the other kids didn't want anything to do with. But later, those same maverick impulses, once they began down a certain path, would see them part ways.

THAT would have been better. Would have taken a bit more explanation, but would have been more believable to fans.

The Old Mixer wrote:

---

If he'd been playing a human character, I might agree. As it was, Sybok was very poorly realized. An "emotional Vulcan" could have been portrayed as somebody who was Vulcan first, and emtional second. As it was, he came off more as a rather gregarious human who just happened to have pointy ears. There was nothing Vulcan about him beyond the superficial.

He even contradicted what we were always told about Vulcans--that they learned to suppress their emotions because they were such a violent people. An emotional Vulcan should be more of a scary bastard.

[The Old Mixer]

Sharr Khan wrote:

---

Why? That undermines the point... which was rather abundant that Vulcans originally, embrace their emotions (for good or ill). I'm actually hard pressed how one can even make a distinction in this regard? How does one behave Vulcan first and emotional second? How does a human? What makes a Vulcan, Vulcan beyond biology? What does it mean to be Vulcan, that you shed your emotions? But Vulcans existed as emotional creatures before Surak and as far as I know were still Vulcans... so lack of emotions can't be a defining characteristic as all indications are that is a chosen state of being and a philosophy.

You're applying a rather binary process of thought to something that is more then likely rather nuanced. If Vulcans can have strong emotions to their detriment, they can also have strong positive emotions as well.

The only contradiction is perhaps Sybok undermines an assumption you likely made (that many tend to make) about preSurak Vulcan and how the people of the planet conducted themselves before "logic" enlightened them.

Sharr

I think you're overanalyzing it. The bottom line is that there was absolutely nothing Vulcan in his performance. They told us he was Vulcan, they put the ears and eyebrows on him, and he acted like a gregarious human. They could have given us something a bit more nuanced. There have been many, many portrayals of aliens who had emotions in Star Trek, but the actors talked and behaved in ways that got across the point that they weren't supposed to be human. AFAIC, TFF didn't deliver on the "emotional Vulcan" premise...they just gave us a human character with pointy ears.

[J. Allen]

I love "The Final Frontier". I love the plot, I love the actors/characters, I love the soundtrack. I have seen the movie literally hundreds of times, and I can always go back and enjoy it again. To each his own, though.

J.

[Peach Wookiee]

So do I, J. Allen.

[Nerdius Maximus]

I thought Sybok was a fairly interesting character. He's one of the high points of the film, for me. Uhura's "naked dance," on the other hand...Well, I could have done without that. But overlooking the flaws, it's a fun movie.

[MeanJoePhaser]

I like George Murdoch's "god".

I the score when they are headed to the planet.

I like Kirk's "I need my pain" rant.

I like Spock PWNING Sybok with "You don't know me" after Spock's vision.

Spock's other good lines "Damn you, sir, you will try." and "Not in front of the Klingons" line.


Weak parts:

Effects.

The A-Team hostage rescue stuff sucked. No real danger or real violence there. Of course Sybock's "cult" wasn't that violent anyway...maybe if they were the movie would be...creepier or something.

The Romulans never sent any ship to the planet of Galactic peace.

McCoy taking god at face value...until it blasts Kirk. Come on, Bones!

Sha'Ka Ri being frikkin' Utah. Not my idea of Heaven...not even close. (There wasn't even on chick dressed in Princess Leia's ROTJ slave costume! )

[Corran Horn]

"I lost a brother once." (yeah, on Deneva)

"I was lucky. I got him back." (oops, sorry Sam!)

[Krieg1981]

My family and I sat in a line wrapped around the theatre twice for ST V, And i've never seen my parents so unhappy at a movie. I was also not impressed. I think the last time I saw it was 10 years ago on HBO. Although the jail break scene makes me chuckle.......