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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 271 79.47%
Above Average 46 13.49%
Average 17 4.99%
Below Average 2 0.59%
Poor 5 1.47%
Voters: 341. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 5 2008, 02:18 AM   #871
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

This has doubtless been belaboured to death, and I have come very late to the party. So, I will attempt to be brief.

I was impressed. Not really a comic book movie person but I like Batman and I enjoyed this film a great deal. My only real criticisms are, firstly, some of the dialogue often felt a little forced. "You either die a hero, or live long enough to become the tagline" sort of stuff. None of this was bad - and a lot of it carried important themes to the film - but it just felt off. Also, Harvey Two-Face's embracing of being an agent of random fate... well, actually I guess that was pulled off about as convincingly as it could.

The criticisms in the preceding paragraph should not detract from the first sentence, which is the most important sentence there. This is exactly what a summer blockbuster should be. Heath Ledger managed to be scary, creepy, and funny - the business with the pencil is precisely the kind of dark humour I wanted. Christopher Nolan fails to disappoint. And so on. You've read that before.
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Old August 5 2008, 03:08 AM   #872
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

When did they start calling him "Harvey Two-Face"? In the comics that I read, he was just Harvey Dent or Two-Face. The only other time I've heard him referred to as "Harvey Two-Face" was in Batman Forever, which I assumed was a bit of nonsense that they'd come up with for that film. But then it pops up again in TDK....
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Old August 5 2008, 03:15 AM   #873
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

I couldn't swear to it since it's been awhile since I've watched it, but I believe Batman: The Animated Series also referred to him as "Harvey Two-Face" a couple of times.
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Old August 5 2008, 03:19 AM   #874
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Emh wrote: View Post
I couldn't swear to it since it's been awhile since I've watched it, but I believe Batman: The Animated Series also referred to him as "Harvey Two-Face" a couple of times.
I've always known him as Harvey Two-Face but I could be cloudy. I also could've sworn Harvey would re-flip his coin if the result didn't suit his strongest desire.
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Old August 5 2008, 03:24 AM   #875
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
The only other time I've heard him referred to as "Harvey Two-Face" was in Batman Forever, which I assumed was a bit of nonsense that they'd come up with for that film. But then it pops up again in TDK....
Well, I'm mainly (read: exclusively) familiar with Batman from media, which mainly means the movies (but also some of the TV shows). So I probably picked the name up from Batman Forever. I thought that was the proper name for the character. It makes sense in TDK, considering it's a nickname given behind his back.
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Old August 5 2008, 05:43 AM   #876
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

In the comics he is either Harvey or Two-Face. Only the animated series called him Harvey Two-Face as fas as I know. But the latter does make a bit of sense.
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Old August 5 2008, 05:48 AM   #877
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

I can buy Harvey Two-Face as a nickname for Harvey Dent pre-scarring, but once he becomes a supervillain, it should really just be Two-Face.
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Old August 5 2008, 05:53 AM   #878
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

^
He never calls himself Harvey Two-Face, to be fair. I think the nickname is just brought up and... well, that's it. It never reaches the nom de guerre level of Joker or Batman and, anyway, the fact Two-Face ever existed is now a secret.
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Old August 5 2008, 06:10 AM   #879
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
The box office take IS impressive, but The Dark Knight has already peaked, so don't expect it to get anywhere near record box office numbers of Titanic (nonadjusted) or Gone With the Wind (adjusted).
agreed
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Old August 5 2008, 11:50 PM   #880
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Sounds like it's a TAS thing, then, which would explain why it stuck.
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I also could've sworn Harvey would re-flip his coin if the result didn't suit his strongest desire.
Tommy Lee Jones did, but as I've seen protested elsewhere, that ruins the whole point of it. Two-Face has a maniacal code of honor/mental block, the same as the Riddler needing to leave riddles as clues.

In other TDK related news, did anyone catch the review in EW last week, in which the reviewer says that Frank Miller added the "the" to Batman? They were calling him "The Batman" back in '39 (as well as "the 'Bat-Man'", with hard quotes included), and AFAIK it came back into common usage when they started to darken him back up in the early '70s. Miller's influence on Batman is way overexagerated.
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Old August 5 2008, 11:55 PM   #881
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

^I agree. Especially because when people talk of Nolan's Batman and its influences, they just pretty much list Frank Miller which is tad ridiculous. Maybe because he's been very popular lately with Sin City and 300 big hits at the box office but I would think journalists would do their research. No mention of Dennis O'Neil, Neal Adams, Jeph Loeb, Tim Sale...

Also, I found a review over at Amazon which compares The Dark Knight to Plato's Republic which I thought was a very interesting and provocative read.

Batman, for whom good and evil, life and death, are not decided by chance, intervenes. In their fight Dent and Batman both plunge to the ground from a height. Batman survives and tells Gordon that the myth of Dent's goodness must become the rallying point for the city. Dent remains the White Knight, while Batman allows himself to become The Dark Knight, spurned by the public, identified wrongly but necessarily as the source of evil, who can then secretly work for the good. Only Gordon and his son know the true story behind this myth. Gotham thus gets the hero it deserves.
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Old August 6 2008, 12:20 AM   #882
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

I don't think it has to do with Miller's recently-adapted works; it's a popular misconception that's out there amongst people who don't know what they're talking about. Miller certainly upped the ante, but O'Neil and his collaborators really deserve the credit for bringing Batman back to his noir roots. Anyone who actually read some Batman comics in the '70s knows this, but it seems to be lost on people who only got into the comics after Miller, or never got into them at all.
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Old August 6 2008, 12:34 AM   #883
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

It helps that Miller wrote a title called The Dark Knight Returns. Those unfamiliar with the comics (of which, I admit, I am one) could easily mistake that graphic novel as the source material for Nolan's similarly titled The Dark Knight. Moreover, the property of Batman itself is rapidly approaching 100 years of existence, and as such, that's a lot of history for a journalist to absorb for what (sadly) might be little more than a throw-away article for them.
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Old August 6 2008, 12:38 AM   #884
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I don't think it has to do with Miller's recently-adapted works; it's a popular misconception that's out there amongst people who don't know what they're talking about. Miller certainly upped the ante, but O'Neil and his collaborators really deserve the credit for bringing Batman back to his noir roots. Anyone who actually read some Batman comics in the '70s knows this, but it seems to be lost on people who only got into the comics after Miller, or never got into them at all.
Popular misconception or not, Miller's increase in popularity as of late surely has contributed to most people referencing him when it comes to Batman. Not all, but most.
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Old August 6 2008, 02:18 AM   #885
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Not to mention portions of Batman Begins taking many of its scenes out of Miller's Batman: Year One (particularly the gag at the end with Lt. Gordon giving Batman the Joker card).
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