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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 271 79.47%
Above Average 46 13.49%
Average 17 4.99%
Below Average 2 0.59%
Poor 5 1.47%
Voters: 341. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 24 2008, 03:22 PM   #616
stj
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
stj wrote: View Post

I've seen comparisons to Godfather in three different locations (Peter Travers, Wired magazine and Locusmag.com's review by Gary Westfahl.)
Chris Nolan needs to get over himself and so called reviewers need to write their own reviews. There's nothing very deep about this movie and it sure isn't adult.
Are you saying that Godfather, a movie that highly romanticized abusive families and murderers was deep and adult? It never struck me as more than pulp fiction melodrama very stylishly presented that managed to touch on some universal dramatic/ human themes (as a lot of pulp ficition meoldrama does) - but it was hardly high cinematic literature. It's as full of larger than life fantasy figures and nifty wish fulfillment as Dark Knight is.
Even the first Godfather succeeds better at rising above the romanticization than Dark Knight. And while Dark Knight has only a small fraction of the godawful dialogue that Begins had, even the first Godfather doesn't have absurdities like Batman's speech to Gordon at the climax. As I recall, Travers for one specifically cited Godfather II, which is a real stretch. The Havana scenes show more real corruption. The overthrow of Batista lets in a peek of a world of real, live individuals, instead of the hermetically sealed puppet play in Dark Knight.

Don't get me wrong. The action scenes were still kind of boring and the climax was more emo than drama, but the movie was watchable, entertaining.
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Old July 24 2008, 03:25 PM   #617
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

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Yeah, but the indiscretions of the prosecutor don't constitute reversible error on appeal. So unless Dent was found to have been fabricating evidence or some other such thing, the fact that he later went on killing spree after suffering a debilitating trauma would make absolutely no difference to any of his convictions or the cases he was working on right before he went nuts.
I gathered that the case had not moved much beyond the initial phase of arraignment. So, at this point, showing Dent be a raving lunatic, would likely have the same effect as showing Mark Furhman to be a racist. It would cast doubt on the prosecutions case. In this instance, it would be more damaging. Because of the novel nature of the charges, the prosecution would have to show a clear conspiracy for prosecution under RICO. Having the the prosecutor be a whack job would unravel that thread of evidence.
Especially a whack job who murdered police officers (even though they were corrupt). I wish they would have included the Holiday storyline though.
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Old July 24 2008, 04:00 PM   #618
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Well it only came out in Medieval England last night, saw it this morning myself.
Though I'd just make a quick little post, and sorry but I can't be arsed reading through 20 pages of comments thus far

I went for 'above average', but would have liked to have gone in between that and 'excellent'. It was an awesome film, but I dunno, maybe just overhyped a bit? All I mean is I wouldn't say it was the greatest movie I've ever seen.
I enjoyed it a lot, but I think though like Batman Begins I might like it more on later viewings

I'm sure everyone goes on about Ledger, and he was brilliant, but big props to Eckhart from me, a sterling turn. Man that face was hard to look at. That big eye ball!


Oh, and Batman's gravelly voice got a bit silly at times. Give that man a lozenge!
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Old July 24 2008, 04:43 PM   #619
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

I voted average, I cant fault the acting, but it dragged out for too long, and it felt like too much of an ordeal, and there was so much misery going on for a minute I thought I was watching se7en, not batman.

I like my superhero films to be escapism from the horrors of the real world, were you leave the cinema smiling, not wanting to slit your wrists.

Micheal Caine seemed wasted, did they film all his scenes in a day? He wasnt much of a presence in the film, all that talk earlier in the year about how the joker was terrifying when he burst into the party, I thought he would have a scene with Alfred, so unless that was cut, I guess Caine was just watching from behind the camera.
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Old July 24 2008, 04:50 PM   #620
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

biotech wrote: View Post
I like my superhero films to be escapism from the horrors of the real world, were you leave the cinema smiling, not wanting to slit your wrists.
Then you'll want to go watch Fantastic Four. The Batman and his world have finally been handled in the serious manner that they should be.
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Old July 24 2008, 05:39 PM   #621
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

saw it today at a 12:30 showing, my review...

i loved it. Everyone's acting their socks off, although Maggie Gyllenhaal as Rachel is not really any better than Katie Holmes was.

Ledger is amazing as a truly psycho-clown who cheeerfully kills his own henchmen as well as innocents and i think he may well get that Oscar... I know some have questioned whether he'd be getting the plaudits if he hadn't died, but I personally think that's an idiotic thing to say. Good acting's good whether the guy's alive to get the plaudits or not.

Aaron Eckhart as Harvey Dent is good as well. He's a good DA-on-a-mission t o clean up Gotham, but he is also a good psycho after the acid hits the face, to paraphrase and he becomes Two-Face. I don't for one second believe his fate is as depicted.

Bale growls and snarls more than ever as the Darkest Knight, he is simply The. Best. Batman. Ever.

Once again, though, Michael Caine nearly steals the scenes from under him as the most wise-cracking butler ever seen.

Oldman is marvvellous as Lt. Gordon, doing his level best to help clean up a corrupt police force.

I did wonder if his number 2 woman was Renee Montoya from the comics, but when she was revealed as a bent copper, I was glad she wasn't...

11/10


i did wonder if the detonators would blow up the same boat, not the opposite one...

i loved the 'pencil trick' and the Joker smacking the detonator at the hospital when it didn't completely blow up.

and WTF was up with the Bat-pod? I swear it rolled when he burst out of the alley and when it went up the wall and span! Cool as Fuck!

it was a bit reminiscent of the 'Bat-blade' in Batman Returns the way it 'seperated' out of the Tumber...
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Old July 24 2008, 06:08 PM   #622
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
saw it today at a 12:30 showing, my review...
13.00 for me

i loved it. Everyone's acting their socks off, although Maggie Gyllenhaal as Rachel is not really any better than Katie Holmes was.

Ledger is amazing as a truly psycho-clown who cheeerfully kills his own henchmen as well as innocents and i think he may well get that Oscar... I know some have questioned whether he'd be getting the plaudits if he hadn't died, but I personally think that's an idiotic thing to say. Good acting's good whether the guy's alive to get the plaudits or not.
Totally agree on all points - particularly in The Joker's scene with the pencil and in the interrogation scene with Batman, absolutely fantastic work, a true Hannibal villain. Ledger deserves every bit of the praise that's been sent his way, and his passing has nothing to do with that. This movie is his, and I daresay the character is now his.
Gyllenhaal was the acting disappoitnmetn of the film, for me - she wasn't bad, and she was less simperingly annoying than Holmes, but she didn't blow me away. The party scene in particular was weak, I felt.

Aaron Eckhart as Harvey Dent is good as well. He's a good DA-on-a-mission t o clean up Gotham, but he is also a good psycho after the acid hits the face, to paraphrase and he becomes Two-Face. I don't for one second believe his fate is as depicted.
I'm tempted to say, based on Nolan's history, that he probably is dead. And In many ways, despite loving the character, I hope he is - the whole dramatic arc of the film is heavily undermined if he's not.

Speaking of his death, Batman's final sacrifice was fantastic, his most heroic moment in the whole film when he realises what Alfred's been saying to him all along. He's been trying to be Gotham's white knight, a figure to be loved and imitated, and in that moment willingly became its dark knight, his real calling. Loved it.

Bale growls and snarls more than ever as the Darkest Knight, he is simply The. Best. Batman. Ever.
Have to say, the 'gravel' voice was irritating in some parts - realistic, Batman needs to have a different voice to Wayne, but notably less scary in the harsh white of the interrogation room than the rain soaked streets of the "Swear to ME!!" scene from Begins. Maybe, of course, that was the point.

i did wonder if the detonators would blow up the same boat, not the opposite one...
I was thinking exactly the same. I bet they did, if either one had pushed them.

A random tech question: Is this the first time in the new franchise that something is referred to as the Bat-item? I don't think we've ever had the Batmobile, Batsuit or the Batarangs named on screen, so is the 'Bat-pod' the first?

Speaking of tech, I loved that someone at Wayne Enterprises finally figured it out. And Fox's response was hilarious!


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Old July 24 2008, 07:02 PM   #623
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

[quote=JacksonArcher;1866900]
Emh wrote: View Post
So Both Burton and Nolan's Batman strive to be about Gotham's dark and noble hero. Burton's Batman beats you over the head with this, the last image being a dramatic shot of Batman perched heroically atop a high-rise, staring at the bat-signal. Contrast this to Nolan's ending where a wounded Batman hobbles through warehouse stacks, hounded by both the police and their dogs, as Gordon takes an ax to the bat-signal while declaring a citywide man-hunt on Batman. When the hero faces more than just comic hijinks and celebrity acting, and must pick himself up in the face of devastating tragedies, there is a desperation and humanity that can only be described heroic. This is Nolan's Dark Knight.
Excellent review.

The sheer darkness of this film impresses me. It seems to be entirely about the hero, not just the Batman/Dent/Gordon troika but the criminal on the boat who does what nobody else can do ... but it doesn't descend into the cloying annoyance of the bridge scene in the first Spiderman because these heroes arise from a world where everyone else is a rank coward. How many people on that boat voted to blow the other boat up? Three quarters? How quickly do the people of Gotham turn on Batman because the Joker has scared them?

It's this dismal view of humanity in the 21st century that elevates this film beyond the average superhero movie. The message seems to be that we get the society we deserve, and any relief from that sentence is because a handful of individuals step up to take responsibility. Agree with that moral or not, the fact that the film takes a moral stance and is willing to explore from pretty big issues is really quite impressive.
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Old July 24 2008, 07:13 PM   #624
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

the thing i also think is worth noting (dunno if anyone else did, not read all 31 pages...) is that this does a better job of defining Bruce/Batman's heroic status than that crappy ass saving both Chase and Robin scene did in Batman Forever.

(which, y'know was an aweful lot like the bridge scene in Spider-Man...)
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Old July 24 2008, 09:17 PM   #625
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

cultcross wrote: View Post
captcalhoun wrote: View Post
saw it today at a 12:30 showing, my review...
13.00 for me
10.30 for me
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Old July 24 2008, 09:23 PM   #626
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
the thing i also think is worth noting (dunno if anyone else did, not read all 31 pages...) is that this does a better job of defining Bruce/Batman's heroic status than that crappy ass saving both Chase and Robin scene did in Batman Forever.
I agree - this film is about the fact that heroism isn't about sweeping in to win the girl and save the day, it's about doing the right thing, the thing that helps others, even when they have no idea or even hate you for it. The film opens with Batman being the traditional caped crusader - storm in, beat up the bad guys, tie them up in a line for the cops, and disappear into the night while the city looks gratefully at the bat-signal. It ends with Batman more heroic than he's ever been - but the people have turned completely against him.
He took what Dent said to heart - Dent lived long enough to become the villain, but Batman allowed him to die the hero. An act of self sacrifice I felt oddly moving, even coming from a man in black rubber.

Ethros wrote: View Post
cultcross wrote: View Post
captcalhoun wrote: View Post
saw it today at a 12:30 showing, my review...
13.00 for me
10.30 for me
git
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Old July 24 2008, 09:38 PM   #627
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Ethros wrote: View Post
Oh, and Batman's gravelly voice got a bit silly at times. Give that man a lozenge!
The way he's gasping at the end of the movie, it reminds me of Napoleon Dynamite's cameo at the end of "Tankman Begins." "This show...is going to be...incredible."
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Old July 24 2008, 09:44 PM   #628
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
Ethros wrote: View Post
Oh, and Batman's gravelly voice got a bit silly at times. Give that man a lozenge!
The way he's gasping at the end of the movie, it reminds me of Napoleon Dynamite's cameo at the end of "Tankman Begins." "This show...is going to be...incredible."
After the movie we went to grab some food (i'd missed lunch for this film, that's a big commitment), And we all ordered in Batman Voice. I was very impressed that the guy serving us guessed exactly what we were doing almost straight away. And we'd just come form the first showing. That's marketing
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Old July 24 2008, 10:16 PM   #629
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

I saw it at 10AM btw.
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Old July 24 2008, 10:20 PM   #630
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

BTW, how does a normal man grab a gun barrel and bend it down?
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