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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old July 18 2008, 03:58 AM   #1
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Is Chang a QuchHa'?

These things lead me to believe he is:

- His makeup, such as it is, doesn't have much Klingonness to it (AFAIK, this is partly at Christopher Plummer's own request)...you can barely see his forehead ridge

- He is more sneaky and underhanded than most Klingons, who would surely consider his actions in the film to be dishonorable (if a Klingon wanted to kill the Chancellor, they'd walk up to him and make an open challenge). Is it in the Klingon nature to conspire?
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Old July 18 2008, 04:33 AM   #2
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Re: Is Chang a QuchHa'?

Don't know about the first, but as to the second: there have been plenty of examples of both crested and non-created Klingons behaving an underhanded manner, so one couldn't identify some kind of link between biology and behaviour like that--even if there was such a thing as Klingon 'nature', which there isn't. They may be genetically prone towards aggression, but any complex behaviour like conspiracy is culturally learned.

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Old July 18 2008, 04:55 AM   #3
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Re: Is Chang a QuchHa'?

There seem to be TOS Klingons, QuchHa', and TNG Klingons, turtleheads.

The Motion Picture and other TOS movies had 'reduced ridges' Klingons. They are usually talked about as turtleheads, but they don't have the distinctive ridges or the hair of Worf-era Klingons.

FASA had the lovely four different types of Fusions, an idea that ENT tossed out. Then there's the Kumburan and Rumaiy, Kamorh'dag and Gevish'rae.


I'm so over the whole forehead thing.

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Old July 18 2008, 04:59 AM   #4
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Re: Is Chang a QuchHa'?

I think Chang is indeed a QuchHa' (i.e. a TOS Klingon). Both in appearance - if Chang had hair, he would look exactly like most Klingons did in TOS - and in attitude/behavior.
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Old July 18 2008, 06:33 AM   #5
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Re: Is Chang a QuchHa'?

I never really thought about it before, but I have to go with Babaganoosh here and say he is a QuchHa' for the reasons he mentioned.
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Old July 18 2008, 09:43 AM   #6
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Re: Is Chang a QuchHa'?

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post

- He is more sneaky and underhanded than most Klingons, who would surely consider his actions in the film to be dishonorable
What was that about "there is no honor greater than victory" again?
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Old July 18 2008, 12:40 PM   #7
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Re: Is Chang a QuchHa'?

As was said, linking conduct to how one's forehead is configured is a bit simplistic. There are plenty of onscreen examples of ridgies acting in dishonorable fashion, and smoothies conducting themselves with what most Klingons would consider "honor." Kor and Kang, from TOS, for example.

Man, somebody should write a book about this sort of thing....
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Old July 18 2008, 02:10 PM   #8
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Re: Is Chang a QuchHa'?

Dayton Ward wrote: View Post
Man, somebody should write a book about this sort of thing....

LOL! You'd think, wouldn't you??
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Old July 18 2008, 03:46 PM   #9
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Re: Is Chang a QuchHa'?

Dayton Ward wrote: View Post
Man, somebody should write a book about this sort of thing....
Phrenology for Klingons? And a another volume in the same series: Edoan Palmistry.
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Old July 18 2008, 04:12 PM   #10
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Re: Is Chang a QuchHa'?

Surely someone in the know around here can name at least one title from the vast Pocket catalog of Star Trek novels that deals at least to some extent with the subject of Klingon honor, while touching on the differences in appearance?

Just spitballing here....



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Old July 18 2008, 04:44 PM   #11
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Re: Is Chang a QuchHa'?

Dayton Ward wrote: View Post
Surely someone in the know around here can name at least one title from the vast Pocket catalog of Star Trek novels that deals at least to some extent with the subject of Klingon honor, while touching on the differences in appearance?

Just spitballing here....




::waves hand wildly:: I can! I can!!!!!

Alex, "In the Name of Honor" for $2000, please...
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Old July 18 2008, 05:22 PM   #12
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Re: Is Chang a QuchHa'?

JNG wrote: View Post
Babaganoosh wrote: View Post

- He is more sneaky and underhanded than most Klingons, who would surely consider his actions in the film to be dishonorable
What was that about "there is no honor greater than victory" again?
Chang said that, did he?
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Old July 18 2008, 06:17 PM   #13
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Re: Is Chang a QuchHa'?

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
These things lead me to believe he is:
- He is more sneaky and underhanded than most Klingons, who would surely consider his actions in the film to be dishonorable (if a Klingon wanted to kill the Chancellor, they'd walk up to him and make an open challenge). Is it in the Klingon nature to conspire?
I don't think there's as much difference between the flat- and bone-heads as is often assumed. (an aside: given the variation in crests, my guess is that it's probably something like cartilage, rather than bone) .

Personally, I think a lot of "Klingon Honor" lore is just cultural huffing and puffing, and to a certain extent, is the Klingon's "opiate of the masses". Worf, growing up separated from actual Klingon society, became something of a fundamentalist (and even within it, his family had high status and were part of the top nobility). For a poor kid like Martok, it was perhaps the one thing that he and he alone could control. Others had room to be more agnostic or apostate on the matter.

Duras (and relations), K'mpec, Gowron, other council member? They might keep up the appearances of honor, but they were perfectly capable of compromising honor for politics or even personal gain.

If there's anything Klingons value more than honor, it's success. In an Empire full of ambitious men vying for power, position, and prestige, it shouldn't be a surprise that ideas of what constitutes honor and where and to whom it applies can differ widely.
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Old July 20 2008, 02:07 AM   #14
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Re: Is Chang a QuchHa'?

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
JNG wrote: View Post
Babaganoosh wrote: View Post

- He is more sneaky and underhanded than most Klingons, who would surely consider his actions in the film to be dishonorable
What was that about "there is no honor greater than victory" again?
Chang said that, did he?
No, it is a Worf comment--but he made it about other Klingons who were fighting in an underhanded manner, so I thought it might be taken to suggest that there are a fair number of Klingon warriors who don't have trouble rectifying such actions with what seem to be the prevailing cultural beliefs re: soldiering and whatnot.
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Old July 20 2008, 05:01 AM   #15
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Re: Is Chang a QuchHa'?

EmperorKalan wrote: View Post
Duras (and relations), K'mpec, Gowron, other council member? They might keep up the appearances of honor, but they were perfectly capable of compromising honor for politics or even personal gain.
What did K'mpec ever do that was dishonorable?
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