RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,938
Posts: 5,390,209
Members: 24,721
Currently online: 619
Newest member: Miltan08

TrekToday headlines

New Trek-themed Bobble Heads
By: T'Bonz on Aug 21

IDW Publishing November Trek Comic
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Pegg/Wright Trilogy In The Works
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Star Trek: The Compendium Rebate Details
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Cumberbatch To Voice Khan
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Shaun And Ed On Phineas and Ferb
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

New Ships Coming From Official Starships Collection
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Trek Stars Take On Ice Bucket Challenge
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

View Poll Results: Sick of the Navy in Space?
The Navy is great, it will always rule the cosmic waves 53 82.81%
Overdone to death, no more Navy in Space 11 17.19%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 15 2008, 12:32 PM   #1
V4Victory
Ensign
 
Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

The Navy dominates scifi but why? Frankly I'm sick of seeing the navy in outer space riding the cosmic oceans. The navy dominates scifi but I'm not just referring to stuff like 2000 Leagues Under the Sea or Seaquest DSV you got big navy ships in Buck Rogers, Confederation Navy from the Wing Commander, the Navy command structure in Star Trek. Almost every scifi got captains and petty officers and admirals and officer cadets and commodores and boats and sea dogs and pirates. Just check it! It's all in tv shows like andromeda, battlestar and straczynski's crusade (B5 maybe not so much but there is still a good chunk of Navy) and most scifi movies have the navy. Why oh Why I think its over done. Why were they still using Navy structure in DS9 since I thought it was supposed to be a SPACE STATION not a sea vessel. Look at space exploration in our real history! Whenever the Navy got involved they mostly flopped, losing out to the Soviets producing the first "flopnik" while Russia got to put the first man in space and the first satellite. Yes we beat the commies to the Moon with Apollo11. WHOOOoooOTT ! but as I read it most of the people in space didn't come from the USN but came from the Air Force or Marines Corps. Armstrong and Shepard are the two I can think of from the Navy but if you ask me I would read 9 out of 10 of people in space are not navy. Today the people in NASA also come from the Air Force or Corps or have PHDs with science and geology backgrounds and we have the private sector getting into space now that we have this space tourism thing starting. Russia's Navy recently wanted to get some money launching old Soviet navy rockets into space for private donors like Sagan's planetary exploration society. Once again a navy produced another flopnick, rocket goes boom! and the planetary society lost their space probe. IMHO what the whole mindset boils down to is Christopher Columbus (NASA named one of the Shuttles after him even though the Shuttle looks nothing like a ship). If Columbus had "discovered" America by going via hot air balloon or going across the pole on foot and sledge I think our whole perception of exploration would be different in scifi. Personally I'm sick of the navy in space
V4Victory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15 2008, 12:35 PM   #2
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

Holy run-on sentences, Batman!

The Stargate Program is run by the Air Force...if that helps at all.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15 2008, 12:46 PM   #3
V4Victory
Ensign
 
Re: Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Holy run-on sentences, Batman! The Stargate Program is run by the Air Force...if that helps at all.
I almost forgot that one. Stargate was a cool enough show, they send out a small team of explorers on secret missions through the Stargate to battle the Goaulds. If you have a smaller team maybe its better to use some Air Force command structure or something un-Navy? However I also remember Stargate going Navyish or Trekish. The Doctor Jackson left the series briefly and comes back then suddenly everyone in Stargate has gone "Navy" and everyone is flying some big spaceship like battlestar or andromeda. Then they do this atlantis series which is basically a mix of a lost DS9 space station getting discovered and a mix of a concept with more flying more battlestar/trek ships against a bunch of bad vampire looking guys. I saw one episode when they even get Atlantis to fly, it started look like a silly version of Trek if you ask me.
V4Victory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15 2008, 12:59 PM   #4
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

Well, to be fair, Atlantis was always supposed to fly.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15 2008, 01:11 PM   #5
V4Victory
Ensign
 
Re: Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

I'm a big fan of Trek but the whole scifi genre should not be "Navy". Limiting the whole scifi genre to Navy is like limiting a whole genre such as horror around "slasher flicks". Say for a moment you got a group of guys in a scifi setting and you want to colonize, or trade, or invade or build in another alien region. Would it not be better to use groups of army engineers? The Navy to me would just get in the way of things like exploration and construction. I think the first colonists of planet Mars would actually hate the Navy structure because it would be too rigid and un-free
V4Victory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15 2008, 01:13 PM   #6
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

I'm not really sure I get what your problem is. Most scifi is about good guys fighting bad guys, and a lot of them do it in space ships. I'm not sure what kind of structure you'd rather have to do that.

Unless you're complaining about the nature of modern scifi action in general...
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15 2008, 01:24 PM   #7
V4Victory
Ensign
 
Re: Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

You could easily fly a spaceship without the Navy, for the basics all you need is a launch pad, a control tower and a worthy ship. Michael Collins flew Apollo 11, his launch pad was KSC Flordia, the Control Center in Houston and his ship was the Lunar Command Module. He was a pilot in the USAF not the Navy! and yes my thread is also complaining about the nature of modern scifi in general since I don't think traders or builders on any future Mars colony would really need the Navy for all of their daily activities. The navy command structure would be too rigid just get in their way
V4Victory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15 2008, 01:28 PM   #8
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

V4Victory wrote: View Post
You could easily fly a spaceship without the Navy, for the basics all you need is a launch pad, a control tower and a worthy ship. Michael Collins flew Apollo 11, his launch pad was KSC Flordia, the Control Center in Houston and his ship was the Lunar Command Module. He was a pilot in the USAF not the Navy!
Well, he probably wasn't blowing up alien spacecraft.

and yes my thread is also complaining about the nature of modern scifi in general since I don't think traders or builders on any future Mars colony would really need the Navy for all of their daily activities. The navy command structure would be too rigid just get in their way
Well, until we start to see more stories about colonization or terraforming or whatnot, you're probably going to have this structure.

I agree that it's been way too long since we've a decent scifi movie like that, though. What was the last real space movie we had that didn't involve space battles? Red Planet? Space Cowboys?
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15 2008, 01:54 PM   #9
Star Wolf
Rear Admiral
 
Star Wolf's Avatar
 
Location: ciudad de Los Angeles
Re: Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

Why the Navy? Because we want to see the interaction of people and spacecraft with hundreds of crewman says ship(navy) not space airplane(air/space force) to the audience. Stargate since it follows today's US military being the great exception. Then there are the colonial marines of aliens and the mercenary regiments of mil SF.

Firefly, Blake, Space Rangers and shows without a fleet, yet set in space and not a planet leave an empty screen. What I miss is that if Navies are flying around there should be many more merchant ships, even robot ones, that those Navies are protecting.
__________________
I'm not crazy! All I Really Need to Know I learned by Watching The Wire
Star Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15 2008, 01:57 PM   #10
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)
Re: Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

As long as you've got spaceships, you're going to have a Navy-style set-up. Even a civilian ship will have a captain and a first-mate as well as a chain of command/picking order that won't be completely different from that of actual military ships, just less polished. They may not wear uniforms, they may not address each other by ranks, but there will always be someone called captain.

But to me, comparing the Navy with other armed forces is like apples and oranges. Basically, you've got the exact same kind of set-up just with different terminology being used. Perhaps there should be more sci-fi shows set on planets or space stations and fewer shows set aboard starships. That's where the difference would come in, I would think...
__________________
"Everybody wants to rule the world..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15 2008, 02:01 PM   #11
Star Wolf
Rear Admiral
 
Star Wolf's Avatar
 
Location: ciudad de Los Angeles
Re: Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
As long as you've got spaceships, you're going to have a Navy-style set-up. Even a civilian ship will have a captain and a first-mate as well as a chain of command/picking order that won't be completely different from that of actual military ships, just less polished. They may not wear uniforms, they may not address each other by ranks, but there will always be someone called captain.

But to me, comparing the Navy with other armed forces is like apples and oranges. Basically, you've got the exact same kind of set-up just with different terminology being used. Perhaps there should be more sci-fi shows set on planets or space stations and fewer shows set aboard starships. That's where the difference would come in, I would think...
Sort of like BSG where the strict Royal/US Navy rank disignators are mixed up with an army rank of Colonel inserted.
__________________
I'm not crazy! All I Really Need to Know I learned by Watching The Wire
Star Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15 2008, 02:26 PM   #12
Skywalker
Admiral
 
Skywalker's Avatar
 
Re: Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

The Wing Commander games featured a Navy, a Marine Corps, and a Space Force (instead of Air Force). The Marines were used as ground troops when the situation called for them, so there was little need for an Army. I can kind of imagine a similar situation in the future, if we ever develop interstellar travel.
Skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15 2008, 02:37 PM   #13
Star Wolf
Rear Admiral
 
Star Wolf's Avatar
 
Location: ciudad de Los Angeles
Re: Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

Skywalker wrote: View Post
The Wing Commander games featured a Navy, a Marine Corps, and a Space Force (instead of Air Force). The Marines were used as ground troops when the situation called for them, so there was little need for an Army. I can kind of imagine a similar situation in the future, if we ever develop interstellar travel.
For the life of me I can't figure out what the thousands of crewman are supposed to do on the Deathstar and all the fleet cruisers of the space navies. Remind me of a Voyager episode with a crew short of people they had a guy taking a message tube and manually routing it to another tube IIRC. And the TNG episode where the crew kept disappearing. Besides the so-called bridge officers in the trekverse why exactly was everybody there. And if everybody isn't there you don't need Captain, XO, chief of this and that, crewman XYZ. Thus no navy structure on rhe ship. The ship itself is a robot like Sulaco of the Aliens colonial marines.
__________________
I'm not crazy! All I Really Need to Know I learned by Watching The Wire
Star Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15 2008, 02:43 PM   #14
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

You do often have to wonder what the crews on those ships do with their time. I would assume most of the ship (especially by the time of Trek) is automated.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 15 2008, 02:51 PM   #15
the Dagman
Commodore
 
the Dagman's Avatar
 
Location: just north of Berkeley, CA
Re: Are you sick and tired of the Navy in scifi

Space and the Navy just kind of go together. Mainly due to the ships as explained above. But have you ever heard of the old Navy program of Operation: Blue Book?

And no, that's not a TV program. Well, there was a TV program based off it back it the 70s. But I am referring to the official classified Navy program.
__________________
The Dagman has left the building.
the Dagman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:43 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.