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Old June 24 2008, 05:14 PM   #46
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

dru wrote: View Post
You're either easily amazed or (fortunately) not exposed to RDM much.

If he wants to follow his creative vision without regard for success with building an audience, he should be doing independent projects. His take on Galactica is a massive failure commercially and creatively.

Its failure is only denied by those lacking in intellectual integrity or predisposed to embracing its self-loathing, conspiratorial worldview worthy of a still-embittered Gore voter.
Um, no.

However, your transparent and failed attempt to reduce the appeal of "Galactica" to that of a political statement appealing to a (fabricated) ideological grouping that you clearly don't care for does speak worlds about the mindset of the anti-Moore crowd.

This kind of thing typifies the oldBSG folks who've dogged RDM around the Internet since 2003 - you can find their screeds posted regularly at places like Colonial Fleets such. They deserve no respect.
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Old June 26 2008, 09:09 AM   #47
Aragorn
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

MattJC wrote: View Post
Not to sit around whining about how life sucks?
So spending all of one's free time bitching and moaning about media that he or she hates and claims isn't worth wasting any time on would be very anti-Star Trek?
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Old June 27 2008, 03:43 AM   #48
DWF
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

T'Bonz wrote: View Post
Old BSG was one of the ONLY sci-fi shows of the early 1970s that I couldn't watch. Even "The Starlost" was better.
It's a good thing the show came out in 1978 then.
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Old June 27 2008, 04:16 AM   #49
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

DWF wrote: View Post
T'Bonz wrote: View Post
Old BSG was one of the ONLY sci-fi shows of the early 1970s that I couldn't watch. Even "The Starlost" was better.
It's a good thing the show came out in 1978 then.
Way to miss the point, there.
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Old June 27 2008, 05:15 AM   #50
ArthurKing
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

Am obviously a huge fan of all things Star Trek. Cut my teeth of TNG. Love the show, the story, the vision, etc. (insert superlatives here) Anything that is that extensive will have some warts, but, overall, I think sci-fi is a far better place thanks to the ST Universe.

Am also a HUGE fan of BSG. It is honestly one of the finest shows I've ever had the privilege to view. I am astounded that something like it could be made in this day and age (of dumbing down and reality shows etc.) I honestly mean that - I think BSG may become the 'blade runner' of the sci-fi tv world - we'll still be talking about it 30 years from now.

There seems to be an underlying current of sour grapes regarding BSG... pervades some of the posts in this thread. Also some very binary thinking: we can have more than one excellent piece of sci-fi television.

I'd love to see TNG brought back. Would love it. Don't know if I'd be the best economic market analyst for the show - I'm too much of a fan, I'd greenlight any idea that came through just because I've missed that damn show since 94 / 02. Someone above said that FC was a fluke. Well ... what of it? 'Great' movies ... greatness in general ... could very well be described as a 'fluke', i.e. a relatively rare event which requires expertise and thoughtfulness and understanding to bring about. To me, FC demonstrated the huge potential for the series on the big screen. Not that it was a 'fluke', simply that it was mismanaged for too many of the films.

Lastly: do agree that characterization and deep dramatic interaction suffered in the movies, and that this was some of the bread and butter for the TNG tv series. but again, movies with strong characterization and great dramatic interaction are still (believe it or not) capable of being made. Again, I wouldn't make the mistake of assuming that just because something happened the way it did, that it was inevitably / necessarily / destined to happen that way and that it couldn't happen any other way in the future. This is classic behavioral econ. availability heuristic bias stuff. Great TNG movies can (and should) still be made.
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Old June 27 2008, 06:41 AM   #51
T'Bonz
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

DWF wrote: View Post
T'Bonz wrote: View Post
Old BSG was one of the ONLY sci-fi shows of the early 1970s that I couldn't watch. Even "The Starlost" was better.
It's a good thing the show came out in 1978 then.
Really. I thought it was a few years earlier. Oh well. I guess the show sucked so badly that my mind is subtly erasing any details about it. Next thing you know, I'll think it was James Arness and not Lorne Greene who starred in the show.
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Old June 27 2008, 04:59 PM   #52
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

James Arness didn't need the work that badly.
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Old June 27 2008, 11:35 PM   #53
DWF
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post
T'Bonz wrote: View Post
Old BSG was one of the ONLY sci-fi shows of the early 1970s that I couldn't watch. Even "The Starlost" was better.
It's a good thing the show came out in 1978 then.
Way to miss the point, there.
No, I'll bet she was actually talking about Space:1999 long the bane of TOS fans.
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Old June 28 2008, 02:33 AM   #54
T'Bonz
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

Oh my. I had totally forgotten that one.

OK, so there were TWO unwatchable shows back then.

That's it. Back to "Silent Running".
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Old June 28 2008, 04:10 AM   #55
DWF
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

^^^LOL!!
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Old June 29 2008, 05:55 AM   #56
number6
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

DWF wrote: View Post

...Space:1999 long the bane of TOS fans.
Says who?? I'm a fan of TOS from the early 70s and loved Space:1999. Still do, in fact.
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Old June 29 2008, 02:30 PM   #57
The Old Mixer
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
James Arness didn't need the work that badly.
What, Lorne had that sweet Alpo deal going at the time....
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Old June 30 2008, 09:27 PM   #58
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

This is Pioneer Actual: I agree. Pioneer out.
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Old June 30 2008, 09:28 PM   #59
Pioneer
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

number6 wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I think he should have made a list of military cliches and stereotypes before he made BSG. It might have helped.
i couldn't agree more.
This is Pioneer Actual: I agree. Pioneer out.
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Old June 30 2008, 09:30 PM   #60
Pioneer
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

JNG wrote: View Post
I don't quite understand this claim of wearing low buzz and low publicity (read: low ratings and low profits) as a "badge of honor." You know, say what you want about Brannon Braga, but in his interactions with the fans post-Trek, he's been pretty cool--he's taken responsibility for things that didn't work and seemingly been honest about what he is proud of and what he is sorry didn't succeed. I wish Ron Moore would lose the sense of entitlement about some of the stuff he worked on and works on today. It is not good that DS9 was buzz-free and its ratings dropped consistently through the series, and yet he tries to pass it off as some sort of problem with the Trek format limiting his creative expression. This sticks in my craw.
Ditto, brother, ditto.
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