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USS Enterprise Press-Out And Build Manual
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

New QMx USS Reliant Model
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

Star Trek Thirty-Five Years On 35MM: A Retrospective
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Trek Shirt And Hoodie
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A Klingon Christmas Carol’s Last Season
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Attack Wing Wave 10 Expansion Pack
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New Star Trek Funko Pop! Vinyl Figures
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

QMx Mini Phaser Ornament
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Stewart as Neo-Nazi Skinhead
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25


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Old June 22 2008, 09:06 PM   #16
The Old Mixer
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

They used to take story pitches from outside writers...that's how Moore got his job.
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Old June 22 2008, 09:35 PM   #17
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

MattJC wrote: View Post
Norrin Radd wrote: View Post
This is spot on. To me, Voy and some of ENT was sooo much like TNG...just with different crews, i.e. going from one planet to the next...
Um, isn't that the point of Star Trek?
To see out new life and explore new worlds?
Sure, in the same sense that Jaws is a movie about a shark that eats people. See here for JJ Abrams' explanation of what I mean. (If you're the impatient sort, it starts about 11 minutes in.)

And thank the Great Bird that Star Trek is now in the hands of someone whose understanding of storytelling is not so shallow that he'd think Star Trek is "about space exploration."
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Old June 22 2008, 11:04 PM   #18
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

number6 wrote: View Post
ancient wrote: View Post
Define 'successful'. nuBSG is successful in that it survived 4 years on the SciFi network on miniscule ratings and a devoted fanbase.
My point is that Moore wouldn't be bitterly dissing the shows that made him if nuBSG tanked after six episodes.
How exactly is he "bitterly dissing" Star Trek? Sure he has opinions on how he felt Trek's various shows could work successfully, but don't we all? He even says that if he was in charge of Voyager he never would have went as far as he's done with Battlestar, because he respects the core identity of what Trek is, to a lot of people, too much. His idea of a different culture developing on Voyager, while it struggles to get back to Earth, sounds a million times more intriguing than the candy coated result that we got. That's an idea that doesn't have to have the same kind of "unsympathetic" characters or dark "airlock tossing" situations, that BSG has, to be interesting.

And I'm sure that if BSG had tanked after six episodes than, yes, he still would have these opinions. There just wouldn't be a reason for interviewers to want to interview and ask him these kinds of questions.
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Old June 23 2008, 02:40 AM   #19
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

BSG is okay. It certainly isn't my favorite series of all time or even now. I got into it in season one and it really was a well paced, tightly written serialized drama but around the second half of season two my interest began to wane and has continued over the last two years.

In all honesty, I've only hung around this long to see how things play out and see some of the long-running questions get answered.

Moore is one of my favorite Trek writers but I do think internet fans go a tad overboard with all the praise they heap upon him. He alone didn't make DS9 great. I think a lot of credit needs to go to Ira Behr. Moore might be a good writer but BSG has shown as a person in charge he has some weaknesses. For one thing, he is not very good at fitting the right amount of material into an hour. He needs to learn to be more efficient. It is ridiculous so much material is cut or that the viewers have to rely on recaps to fill us in on stuff we missed out on. I'm sure other shows have this problem but it isn't as noticeable.

And as far as cliches, BSG has become predictable in its own way. There is no real sense of suspense a lot of the time because you just know if it is dark or depressing that is where the story is headed.
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Old June 23 2008, 03:47 AM   #20
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

I think he should have made a list of military cliches and stereotypes before he made BSG. It might have helped.
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Old June 23 2008, 04:38 AM   #21
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I think he should have made a list of military cliches and stereotypes before he made BSG. It might have helped.
i couldn't agree more.
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Old June 23 2008, 05:52 AM   #22
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

I don't quite understand this claim of wearing low buzz and low publicity (read: low ratings and low profits) as a "badge of honor." You know, say what you want about Brannon Braga, but in his interactions with the fans post-Trek, he's been pretty cool--he's taken responsibility for things that didn't work and seemingly been honest about what he is proud of and what he is sorry didn't succeed. I wish Ron Moore would lose the sense of entitlement about some of the stuff he worked on and works on today. It is not good that DS9 was buzz-free and its ratings dropped consistently through the series, and yet he tries to pass it off as some sort of problem with the Trek format limiting his creative expression. This sticks in my craw.
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Old June 23 2008, 07:47 AM   #23
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

Well if Moore felt too restrained he should have moved on yet he stuck around through TNG, then moved onto DS9 and then onto VOY. He would have known what he would and wouldn't be able to do. So apparently it didn't bother him too much since he stuck around for 10 years.
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Old June 23 2008, 12:59 PM   #24
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

Augustus wrote: View Post
Very true Mr. Moore.
That is why DS9 is my favorite. Nothing else like it among Trek. Certain episodes of TNG, may seem like TOS, may seem like VOY, may seem like ENT. But rarely does an episode of DS9 seem familiar.

Did the Enterprise in TNG ever lose really? The only time I can think of was Data's Day...
They didn't do so well in "Q Who?"
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Old June 23 2008, 03:11 PM   #25
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

I like nuBSG a lot.

I don't ever want Trek to resemble nuBSG - that is a formula for permanent marginalization (nuBSG is deservedly highly praised, but few people watch it).

But then, as some smart lawyer fellow around here observed many years ago, I don't require that everything I enjoy be identical to everything else I like.
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Old June 23 2008, 06:52 PM   #26
Samuel T. Cogley
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

number6 wrote: View Post
I'm still waiting an answer to this question I posted upthread:
Do you think he'd be this smug about his opinions of Trek if nuBSG hadn't been as successful?

no one seems to have an opinion either way?
It sounds like you have an issue with RDM. There's an emotional component to your post that belies your bias. Which is fine, of course. You aren't required to like him.

"Smug" is not a word I would ever use to describe RDM. He's often confident in his choices, which might seem smug to some. He's also quite self-effacing, something very rare in Hollywood. I have met him in person, and the guy couldn't be any more laid back and down-to-Earth than he is. He's exactly like he is in the podcasts.

So, in answer to your question, no he is not smug. And, besides, he's been saying this stuff for a while now, even before BSG came out. So I don't think it's much of a factor, one way or the other.
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Old June 23 2008, 07:22 PM   #27
number6
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
number6 wrote: View Post
I'm still waiting an answer to this question I posted upthread:
Do you think he'd be this smug about his opinions of Trek if nuBSG hadn't been as successful?

no one seems to have an opinion either way?
It sounds like you have an issue with RDM. There's an emotional component to your post that belies your bias. Which is fine, of course. You aren't required to like him.

"Smug" is not a word I would ever use to describe RDM. He's often confident in his choices, which might seem smug to some. He's also quite self-effacing, something very rare in Hollywood. I have met him in person, and the guy couldn't be any more laid back and down-to-Earth than he is. He's exactly like he is in the podcasts.

So, in answer to your question, no he is not smug. And, besides, he's been saying this stuff for a while now, even before BSG came out. So I don't think it's much of a factor, one way or the other.
I don't have an issue at all with RDM. I met him at a con ages ago and he seemed an affable fellow.

I'm not a fan of nuBSG and find it highly overrated.
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Old June 23 2008, 07:37 PM   #28
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

Does the Internet usage of "highly overrated" actually mean anything different than saying "the fans of this show/movie/whatever like it a lot more than I do?"
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Old June 23 2008, 07:46 PM   #29
number6
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
Does the Internet usage of "highly overrated" actually mean anything different than saying "the fans of this show/movie/whatever like it a lot more than I do?"
No.
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Old June 23 2008, 09:15 PM   #30
Samuel T. Cogley
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Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

number6 wrote: View Post
Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
number6 wrote: View Post
I'm still waiting an answer to this question I posted upthread:
Do you think he'd be this smug about his opinions of Trek if nuBSG hadn't been as successful?

no one seems to have an opinion either way?
It sounds like you have an issue with RDM. There's an emotional component to your post that belies your bias. Which is fine, of course. You aren't required to like him.

"Smug" is not a word I would ever use to describe RDM. He's often confident in his choices, which might seem smug to some. He's also quite self-effacing, something very rare in Hollywood. I have met him in person, and the guy couldn't be any more laid back and down-to-Earth than he is. He's exactly like he is in the podcasts.

So, in answer to your question, no he is not smug. And, besides, he's been saying this stuff for a while now, even before BSG came out. So I don't think it's much of a factor, one way or the other.
I don't have an issue at all with RDM. I met him at a con ages ago and he seemed an affable fellow.

I'm not a fan of nuBSG and find it highly overrated.
Well, then let's go back to your original question.

Since RDM has been saying these things pretty much all the way back to when he left Star Trek (and maybe before), how does that not answer your question?
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