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Old January 6 2010, 05:28 PM   #256
Professor Moriarty
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Nice! (Why is there a notch in the saucer section to port of the impulse deck?)
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Old January 6 2010, 05:28 PM   #257
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

deg3D wrote: View Post
The thing I find when trying to go for/hold a realistic sense, is not to bend over backwards to make all the detail built seen and sure to be featured so much. Let it lie where it lies. Being there, it contributes to the overall reality, even if you can't make out every nut-and-bolt poly sweated over (which is a tendacy of many artists, to sacrfice photo-realism for the sake of showing off their detail work. I suppose it depends on what one wants to do with their art.

Myself, I always strive for the photo-real aspect as much as I am able. If the means my detail work takes a back-seat, so be it. That's real life.
Oh, I agree that not every detail needs to be visible at a distance, otherwise they would all be "features," not "details." The chicken wire will probably stay, though I may tone it down a little further yet, or possibly enlarge the pattern slightly, or both.

And despite the "chicken wire" comparison, I wasn't really thinking of it as a reinforcing mesh, but more as the bonded seams between hexagonal tiles of transparent aluminum assembled into a half-sphere. Perhaps the bonding process alters the molecular properties in such a way that it is no longer transparent at the joint, something like that.

I, too, strive for visual realism in my work, and that's the major reason why I'm taking another pass at this design for the Enterprise, to take the level of realism up another notch on the scale. I don't think the last iteration was half bad, but it was done as a rather hurried modification of an earlier model. I mentioned in a post not too long ago that I plan to use this model for my own updating of The Doomsday Machine, and it's going to be used by someone else for another project as well, which makes it even more important for the modeling and texturing to be brought up to high-def specs.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to set this project aside for a bit because I absolutely have to get back to finishing the next round of updates on the Grandeur.

So many projects, so little time.
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Old January 6 2010, 05:53 PM   #258
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Professor Moriarty wrote: View Post
Nice! (Why is there a notch in the saucer section to port of the impulse deck?)
I was wondering if anyone would notice that. It's where one of the RCS thrusters used to be. I'm in the process of re-doing those in a different way and the polygons are just missing at the moment.

There are a couple other recent changes visible in these latest renderings (other than the obvious ones at the fronts of the nacelles) that I'm surprised no one has mentioned. Any guesses?
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Old January 6 2010, 06:37 PM   #259
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

You refering to the alterations on the pylons, right?
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Old January 6 2010, 07:48 PM   #260
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Because some of you like to study wireframes, and because I thought it just looked cool.

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Old January 6 2010, 08:01 PM   #261
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Always nice to see behind the scenes of the pros, thanks
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Old January 6 2010, 08:18 PM   #262
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Vektor wrote: View Post
I haven't totally settled on the idea that the dome is purely an energy field. I'm thinking it might be a physical construct made out of transparent aluminum or whatever and the glow effect is like a luminous static charge that builds up from the spinning blades. This would rationalize the specular reflections and highlights on its surface. I also think it looks better when the engines are powered down and less like somebody left the hood off the engine.



So what about all that stuff I said about a giant glass dome detracting from the ship's sense of scale? Well, I do think the more visible internal components help to offset that effect, and I had another idea I borrowed from my USS Grandeur model that might work:



Nothing like a little jumbo-sized chicken wire to reinforce your transparent aluminum singularity containment sphere! Here's what it looks like lit up:



I like this overall, but it does prevent the finer details behind the dome from ever been seen with clarity, and the hex pattern really isn't visible from much further away than what's shown in these renderings. Still, I think it's an option worth considering.
I think I see a small change at the base of the pylons and where they connect to the warp drive units! Am I right?
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Old January 6 2010, 09:17 PM   #263
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Vektor wrote: View Post
The chicken wire will probably stay, though I may tone it down a little further yet, or possibly enlarge the pattern slightly, or both.
I really like the so-called "chicken wire"--it should be visible more frequently than when you're only 10 meters away! Unsolicited suggestion: I'd enlarge the mesh and thicken the "wire" gauge to make it a little more visible.
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Old January 6 2010, 09:20 PM   #264
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

ST-One wrote: View Post
You refering to the alterations on the pylons, right?
ncc-1017-e wrote: View Post
I think I see a small change at the base of the pylons and where they connect to the warp drive units! Am I right?
Yup, you're both right. I've seen a lot of comments over the years from people who thought those connections were a little too... plain? Abrupt? Simplified? Not sure of the best word to describe it, but they did seem to need a little something more.

On the previous iteration of this design, I used a fillet blend at the base of the pylons where they connect to the secondary hull. I was never really happy with that look because it wasn't consistent and it seemed a little too obviously derivative of the TMP refit. I later came up with the idea to use a more angular chamfer on the acute angled side of each connection point. You can't see it well in any of these latest renderings, but I did basically the same thing to the interconnecting dorsal. I think it makes those parts look a little more integrated without getting too organic, as is arguably the case with the new movie version.
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Old January 6 2010, 09:22 PM   #265
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Vektor wrote: View Post
deg3D wrote: View Post
The thing I find when trying to go for/hold a realistic sense, is not to bend over backwards to make all the detail built seen and sure to be featured so much. Let it lie where it lies. Being there, it contributes to the overall reality, even if you can't make out every nut-and-bolt poly sweated over (which is a tendacy of many artists, to sacrfice photo-realism for the sake of showing off their detail work. I suppose it depends on what one wants to do with their art.

Myself, I always strive for the photo-real aspect as much as I am able. If the means my detail work takes a back-seat, so be it. That's real life.
Oh, I agree that not every detail needs to be visible at a distance, otherwise they would all be "features," not "details." The chicken wire will probably stay, though I may tone it down a little further yet, or possibly enlarge the pattern slightly, or both.

And despite the "chicken wire" comparison, I wasn't really thinking of it as a reinforcing mesh, but more as the bonded seams between hexagonal tiles of transparent aluminum assembled into a half-sphere. Perhaps the bonding process alters the molecular properties in such a way that it is no longer transparent at the joint, something like that.

I, too, strive for visual realism in my work, and that's the major reason why I'm taking another pass at this design for the Enterprise, to take the level of realism up another notch on the scale. I don't think the last iteration was half bad, but it was done as a rather hurried modification of an earlier model. I mentioned in a post not too long ago that I plan to use this model for my own updating of The Doomsday Machine, and it's going to be used by someone else for another project as well, which makes it even more important for the modeling and texturing to be brought up to high-def specs.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to set this project aside for a bit because I absolutely have to get back to finishing the next round of updates on the Grandeur.

So many projects, so little time.
Coolness. Oh, and as I was schooled by Cary when I mentioned molecules in relation to metal:

Cary L. Brown wrote:

“Well, I hate to bring reality into it...

See... "metallic" materials do not have molecules. Not at all. If you make a molecule... even one which contains atoms of metallic elements... it is in no way whatsoever a metal anymore.

Anytime someone shows you a "molecule of metal" in science-fiction... they're simply demonstrating that they have no real grasp of even the most basic elements of materials science.

Steel is a metallic matrix, which in some forms has some small amounts of covalent iron compounds present along grain boundaries (resulting in a harder, but more brittle, state).

Then again... Aluminum is a metallic material, which (due to the same free electrons which make it metallic in the first place) is inherently, and incontrovertably, opaque.

So I guess basic materials science doesn't apply in Trekkiedom. Carry on.”


Can't have stuff jumpin' the rails, eh.

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Old January 6 2010, 09:26 PM   #266
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Vektor wrote: View Post
ST-One wrote: View Post
You refering to the alterations on the pylons, right?
ncc-1017-e wrote: View Post
I think I see a small change at the base of the pylons and where they connect to the warp drive units! Am I right?
Yup, you're both right. I've seen a lot of comments over the years from people who thought those connections were a little too... plain? Abrupt? Simplified? Not sure of the best word to describe it, but they did seem to need a little something more.

On the previous iteration of this design, I used a fillet blend at the base of the pylons where they connect to the secondary hull. I was never really happy with that look because it wasn't consistent and it seemed a little too obviously derivative of the TMP refit. I later came up with the idea to use a more angular chamfer on the acute angled side of each connection point. You can't see it well in any of these latest renderings, but I did basically the same thing to the interconnecting dorsal. I think it makes those parts look a little more integrated without getting too organic, as is arguably the case with the new movie version.
Yep, everything structural generally has "pilings" for support. That was one on the first things I added to my E, as the idea of the pylons just jutting out of the hull was ridiculous to me. As is anything that just "juts."

deg
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Old January 6 2010, 09:36 PM   #267
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Hmm... Well, I certainly wouldn't want to provoke a similar schooling from Cary, so let's say the bonding process alters the atomic structure in such a way that it is no longer transparent. It's also possible that transparent aluminum is not actually a pure element any more than steel is, they just don't bother calling it by its full name, in which case the molecular structure comment could still be accurate.
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Old January 6 2010, 09:38 PM   #268
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

^ The more I read the better I like! I cannot wait to see more!
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Old January 7 2010, 12:03 AM   #269
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Vektor wrote: View Post
Because some of you like to study wireframes, and because I thought it just looked cool.

^ i christen thee the USS VenetianBlinds

i always love the wireframes too!
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Old January 7 2010, 01:50 AM   #270
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

I don't have a lot of critical input, other to say I'm liking it.
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