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Old January 5 2010, 12:34 AM   #226
AudioBridge
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Vektor wrote: View Post
By the way, is anyone still thinking the spikes on the nacelle domes look "hokey?" Personally, I can't hardly imagine this ship without them anymore.
The spikes look cool!

Concerning the nacelle caps, I assume the innards will spin? If so, why not make the dome caps "transparent aluminum"? Wouldn't it appear like a translucent dome with a little more light from those grills with the blades spinning? Then, when they're not spinning all the cool details can be seen.
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Old January 5 2010, 01:33 AM   #227
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Okay, here's a version with the diffuse effect toned down to 25%:



And here is a version with it amp'd up to 75%:



I'm not sure which version I prefer at this point. I'll probably have to wait to see how they look when animated.
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Old January 5 2010, 02:18 AM   #228
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

The first, clearer dome looks better!
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Old January 5 2010, 02:18 AM   #229
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Vektor wrote: View Post
Obviously, this is one of the bussard collectors, or nacelle domes, or whatever the heck you want to call them. Personally, I'm not that fond of the whole bussard concept as it pertains to Trek ships but I guess we're stuck with it at this point.
The way they look or what they are?

Originally the Bussard Collectors weren't Bussard Collectors at all. Originally the nacelles is where the matter/anti-matter reactors were. Each nacelles had two warp coils; one in front, and on back. In the back is the white sphere that is the space-time expander. This expanded space-time, enlarged it. Then there was coil on the front, the orange nacelle caps, aka the space-time sink. The space-time sink crunched, or shrank space-time in front of the ship.

This came first from Jeffries design, who set up the matter/anti-matter reactors in the nacelles, keeping it and any harmful radiation of it and other reactions as far away as possible from the crew. What exactly the nacelle caps were he never specified, except that it was part of the engine.

The space-time sink came for Franz Joseph's technical manual, and here came the problem, that was two-fold:

1. Gene Roddenberry wanted to see money, Joseph's manual didn't make him money. So he decided to change things.

2. The TNG guys missunderstood "space-time sink" thinking it was something that collected something from space, and they made it hydrogen.

The nacelle caps on the original Enterprise then have the twirling around concept, while TNG just had a similarly looking red caps.

Interestingly enough, they don't contradict one-another. At the time of TMP, as one can see in the movies, there is no red nacelle caps at all. The ships had neither the space-time sinks, nor the Bussard collectors. The TMP nacelles also don't have the matter/anti-matter reactors anymore, now a central warp core. In order words, the Federation learned the ability of serially putting in multiple warp coils to make the warp engines more efficient.

Only several decades later would Bussard collectors added, who were deliberately or coincidentally made to look like the old warp coils; thus showing a design lineage.

I always figured that the dark orange lanes twirling around in the nacelle cap weren't so much machinery, but rapidly twirling plasma streamers. Maybe you can see how that looks; swirling plasma, making the entire nacelle-cap churning with power.
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Old January 5 2010, 02:46 AM   #230
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

AudioBridge wrote: View Post
The first, clearer dome looks better!
See, that's why I'm thinking this will look better when it's in motion--Vektor could animate the effect to vary the opacity, diffusion and mutliple other channels, perhaps along with little energy discharges/sparks/bolts of energy coruscating around the whirling blades. Really, there's just about no limit to what could be done once you decide that the dome isn't a physical object anymore... Vek's now only limited by his imagination (and the render time required for whatever he comes up with!)
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Old January 5 2010, 08:31 AM   #231
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Vektor wrote: View Post
Okay, here's a version with the diffuse effect toned down to 25%:



And here is a version with it amp'd up to 75%:



I'm not sure which version I prefer at this point. I'll probably have to wait to see how they look when animated.
If you want to use a dome then I'd use the second version - but would probably tone down the reflection/specularity since this is an energy field and not a physical object.
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Old January 5 2010, 01:29 PM   #232
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Just curious: have you tried 50% (or some other gradation between the 2 above), or would that be too "middle of the road"? I ask because, while I very much like aspects of both the most recent versions, to me the first perhaps reveals too much -- especially if we're going to get to see the "guts" when the ship's not at warp; but the second leaves me wanting to see a little more of the innards. Of course, I don't know exactly what you intend to be going on when the domes are "switched off." If there will be no "glowey bits" when the ship's at sub-light, then you may well want to reveal those elements while the force field dome is active, as well.

Guess I'm just thinking out loud a bit.

Regardless, I like the effect a lot! Love the creative use of tire treads. Oh, and I'm a big fan of the spikes. And I have to say that I like the Prof's idea of having some "sparkly stuff" going on behind the dome when it's active, to give a nod to the original effect.
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Old January 5 2010, 03:03 PM   #233
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

I love the forcefield idea, very cool, but I do prefer the first version, the more transparent one.
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Old January 5 2010, 03:17 PM   #234
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Vektor wrote: View Post
By the way, is anyone still thinking the spikes on the nacelle domes look "hokey?" Personally, I can't hardly imagine this ship without them anymore.
Yes leave the spikes! They are just so perfect to me!
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Old January 5 2010, 03:24 PM   #235
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Vektor wrote: View Post
Okay, here's a version with the diffuse effect toned down to 25%:



And here is a version with it amp'd up to 75%:



I'm not sure which version I prefer at this point. I'll probably have to wait to see how they look when animated.
I like the first one the best and of course the powered down version! BTW I had to smoke after seeing this amazing work! If only "those folks" had a clue!
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Old January 5 2010, 03:30 PM   #236
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Professor Moriarty wrote: View Post
ST-One wrote: View Post
I really like the internals you built there - and the spikes look fine

I may have an idea for the force-field-domes: don't add them
No, actually, perhaps you could add a glowing surface to the sides an of the all blades (or even have the middle pieces of the blades light-up), so that they would create something like a dome-like look when they spin-up faster and faster for warp speed.
It would also eliminate the longer rendertimes for the diffusion of the force-field-dome (but add some for the motion-blur )
Boo! I want the force field!
I agree with the professor!
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Old January 5 2010, 04:03 PM   #237
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

Agreed, spikes and forcefields work just fine for me.
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Old January 5 2010, 04:50 PM   #238
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

First I want to say that you and Deg have created two awesome variations on the TOS E. You have found the balance between respecting the lines and proportions of the original while adding additional details that enrich the character of the design.

As for your current work here, I’m in the camp favoring a clearer dome/forcefield effect. As an alternate idea, what about adding a moving/flowing/swirling plasma ribbon effect to the outer surface of the dome that alternately obscures and reveals varying patches of the working machinery inside? I am sure it would add to the render time but it might be worth a low res test effort to see if the effect would be worth it.

I never really cared for the spires on the pilot E but they really work well here with all the added detail. I could go either way, with or without. You could try making them retractable if you go with the forcefield interpretation of the dome. Perhaps they extend out farther through the forcefield at higher speed much like the inlet spikes of the SR-71 Blackbird.
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Old January 5 2010, 05:20 PM   #239
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

i really like your opaque 2nd version. i still cant bring myself to like the JJ versions...
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Old January 5 2010, 06:20 PM   #240
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Re: Modified TOS Ent - Wallpapers

ncc-1017-e wrote: View Post
Professor Moriarty wrote: View Post
ST-One wrote: View Post
I really like the internals you built there - and the spikes look fine

I may have an idea for the force-field-domes: don't add them
No, actually, perhaps you could add a glowing surface to the sides an of the all blades (or even have the middle pieces of the blades light-up), so that they would create something like a dome-like look when they spin-up faster and faster for warp speed.
It would also eliminate the longer rendertimes for the diffusion of the force-field-dome (but add some for the motion-blur )
Boo! I want the force field!
I agree with the professor!




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