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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old June 22 2008, 04:05 AM   #31
chancellorjake
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Re: Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
MeanJoePhaser wrote: View Post
Sovereign-class Enterprise didn't get built overnight.
It's likely they already had one ready and just simple renamed it Enterprise when the -D was destroyed and reassigned the -D's crew to the new E.
That's what I have always assumed. It seemed to be the simplest explanation.
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Old June 22 2008, 06:13 PM   #32
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Re: Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
MeanJoePhaser wrote: View Post
Sovereign-class Enterprise didn't get built overnight.
It's likely they already had one ready and just simple renamed it Enterprise when the -D was destroyed and reassigned the -D's crew to the new E.
Don't forget that Riker was in command of the Enterprise-D when it was destroyed, and losing the Federation flagship to a 20-year-old Klingon Bird of Prey when it could so easily have been avoided by simply ejecting the Warp Core must be a little embarrassing. It's a wonder he wasn't drummed out of Starfleet for incompetence, never mind not being offered his own command.
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Old June 22 2008, 10:18 PM   #33
Vanyel
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Re: Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

I haven't read any of the Titan books but I think that the in universe reason was that Riker's posting to the Federations flagship was the gold standard for XO's. Then the Dominion War came along, and I'm sure Starfleet decided that the Enterprise crew should stay together, for no other reason than fleet moral.

Then once the War ended, and Starfleet started building new ships as fast as it could Riker either decided it was time to go or he got an order from Starfleet that said take the Titan or eventual become the oldest XO in Starfleet History.
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Old June 23 2008, 04:28 AM   #34
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Re: Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

Vanyel wrote: View Post
I haven't read any of the Titan books but I think that the in universe reason was that Riker's posting to the Federations flagship was the gold standard for XO's. Then the Dominion War came along, and I'm sure Starfleet decided that the Enterprise crew should stay together, for no other reason than fleet moral.

Then once the War ended, and Starfleet started building new ships as fast as it could Riker either decided it was time to go or he got an order from Starfleet that said take the Titan or eventual become the oldest XO in Starfleet History.
Vanyel: Your explanation makes sense as to why Riker wound up as XO on the Enteprise-E after the D was destroyed instead of receiving his own command. I'll buy that for a dollar! -- RR
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Old June 23 2008, 06:03 AM   #35
James Wright
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Re: Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

I think it was near the end of the movie Generations that might explain his reason for staying on the E-D?

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Old June 23 2008, 08:05 AM   #36
nx1701g
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Re: Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

RaymondJames wrote: View Post
proably the F too (i think there is anovel or two with the F and Picard was serving as CO for a while)
Partially correct. We have twice had an Enterprise-F mentioned in the novels. While noncanon in their appearances here are their commanders:

Imzadi Timeline - Commodore Data was Captain of the Enterprise-F
DS9 Millennium - Captain William T. Riker was Captain of the Enterprise-F
(Admiral Picard was briefly attached to the Enterprise but left to command the USS Phoenix)


Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
MeanJoePhaser wrote: View Post
Sovereign-class Enterprise didn't get built overnight.
It's likely they already had one ready and just simple renamed it Enterprise when the -D was destroyed and reassigned the -D's crew to the new E.
While not canon there is a novel that mentions that the Enterprise-E was originally supposed to be named the USS Honorius
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Old June 23 2008, 04:49 PM   #37
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Re: Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

come on people its simple, the reason we dont hear of an offer to riker to be captain of another ship after bobw is because starfleet doesnt trust picard. picard as locutus just destroyed multiple starships and endangered billions of lives on earth. after he was removed from the borg collective starfleet couldnt just replace him, so they kept riker there as a mole watching over everything picard did. as much was said in first contact.

after the borg threat in FC and Voyager is shown to be less of a problem, that is when riker takes command of the titan.
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Old June 23 2008, 06:02 PM   #38
James Wright
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Re: Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

Do you think Star Fleet offered the assignment of talking with the Romulans as a way to get Riker to accept promotion and a ship of his own?

JDW
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Old June 24 2008, 05:09 AM   #39
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Re: Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

^Yes and Riker knew it was time, his life has changed: He got married and lost a good friend in Nemesis.
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Old June 24 2008, 07:14 PM   #40
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Re: Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

Iamnotspock wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
MeanJoePhaser wrote: View Post
Sovereign-class Enterprise didn't get built overnight.
It's likely they already had one ready and just simple renamed it Enterprise when the -D was destroyed and reassigned the -D's crew to the new E.
Don't forget that Riker was in command of the Enterprise-D when it was destroyed, and losing the Federation flagship to a 20-year-old Klingon Bird of Prey when it could so easily have been avoided by simply ejecting the Warp Core must be a little embarrassing. It's a wonder he wasn't drummed out of Starfleet for incompetence, never mind not being offered his own command.
Very true. I imagine that he and Picard were both court-martialed.

As to the question on why Riker put off commanding his ship for such a long time, I don't know if there is a good reason. When he was first presented in TNG, he was an ambitious officer, eager to rise through the ranks. It's understandable that he turned down the Drake to be the XO on the Federation's flagship, the Enterprise. Maybe even turning down the Ares makes some sense since he was only two years on the Enterprise. After that, though, by the time of BOBW, it really doesn't. Unlike Spock, who never was interested in commanding a starship, Riker was on the command track. His lack of ambition in the later seasons of TNG just didn't ever make much sense at all. In fact, as we heard from that admiral in BOBW, it was hurting his career.

The loss of the Enterprise in GEN, however, could very well be a big ding on Riker's record. The Federation's flagship was taken out by an antique Bird of Prey that it vastly outgunned on Riker's watch, all because Geordi's VISOR was compromised, something that happened before on TNG. Riker, and maybe Picard (for leaving the ship in Riker's hands), deserves some of the responsibility for that screw-up. That may have put him down further on the Captain's list for his first command, despite his laudable achievments, particularly wrt the Borg incursion in BOBW, perhaps Riker's finest TNG moment.

As for why Picard wasn't an Admiral, yes, there's what Kirk said to him, but I'm of the opinion that there's more to it than that. Remember, we saw that Picard never made Admiral in the possible future of All Good Things, where the events of GEN apparently never happened. That implies that there could very well be other reasons he never was promoted. I'm of the opinion that his experiences with the Borg ruined his chances at promotion. We know that SF was nervous about Picard after BOBW from Admiral Satie's reaction to him in Drumhead and the admiralty asking the Ent-E to stay away from Earth in FC. Then there's Picard deciding not to use Geordi and Data's computer virus against the Borg in I, Borg. That decision, to me, was inconceivable for Picard. In the end, SF's biggest mission is to protect the Federation from its enemies, and there is no enemy as implacable and dangerous as the Borg. The correct decision was to use the weapon and Picard put his principles ahead of his duty as a SF officer. Janeway (both Captain and Admiral) ultimately made the correct decision in Endgame. Even William Adama tried to take out the cylons in BSG with a plague. Finally, Sisko put his personal principles on hold in the great DS9 episode," In the Pale Moonlight." Adama and Sisko didn't feel good about those decisions, but they knew it was the only thing they could do (Janeway didn't look like she had any moral misgivings, which was disturbing seeing as how she knew from direct experience that the Borg drones were victims). We saw how Picard's decision not to use the virus angered Admiral Nacheyev in Descent and Picard finds himself questioning his decision. In the end, he chose Borg lives over the lives of Federation citizens who were murdered by the freed Borg at the behest of Lore. Based on those considerations, I think Picard has some enemies in the Admiralty. He still apparently had enough clout and friends though to get command of the Ent-E, but maybe they've made it plain to him that he'll never again be offered the rank of Admiral, due to security concerns and the dings on his record from I Borg and the loss of the Ent-D. Not that Picard cares that much. He clearly enjoys being a starship captain and we've seen that, unlike Kirk, who was obsessed with commanding the Eneterprise, he's capable of moving on to other projects and interests.

Last edited by rocketscientist; June 25 2008 at 01:27 AM.
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Old June 24 2008, 07:26 PM   #41
Mysterion
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Re: Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

RaymondJames wrote: View Post
And Why hasn't Picard retired yet or been promoted.
He's lost two ships under his command. He's lucky to have the job he's got much less a promotion.

As for Mr. Riker, he's lucky I'm not running Starfleet. After nearly a decade of that big a lack of motivation and turning down at least three opportunities for advancement, I wouldn't offer his command of an in-system tug, if at all.
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Old June 24 2008, 07:27 PM   #42
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Re: Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

JDW wrote: View Post
Do you think Star Fleet offered the assignment of talking with the Romulans as a way to get Riker to accept promotion and a ship of his own?

JDW
But at the beginning of the movie it's established that Riker had accepted promotion and his own command. Picard states so in his wedding toast that Riker and Troi were moving on. The whole Romulan-Remus affair happened after they were en route to Betazed. It was the events in NEM that prompted Starfleet to reassign Riker's ship to negotiate with the Romulans.
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Old June 25 2008, 12:53 AM   #43
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Re: Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

Mysterion wrote: View Post
RaymondJames wrote: View Post
And Why hasn't Picard retired yet or been promoted.
He's lost two ships under his command. He's lucky to have the job he's got much less a promotion.

As for Mr. Riker, he's lucky I'm not running Starfleet. After nearly a decade of that big a lack of motivation and turning down at least three opportunities for advancement, I wouldn't offer his command of an in-system tug, if at all.
Then I'd say it's a good thing you're not running Starfleet! Or anything else, I hope!

Let's not forget that Riker's fast thinking while in command of the Enterprise allowed him to neutralize the Borg threat, thereby saving the Federation and Starfleet from assimilation, something I'm sure didn't go unnoticed at Starfleet Command.

I'm sure there were head-scratchers and people like Jellico who looked disapprovingly at Riker -- recall that in Chain of Command, Pt 1, Captain Jellico said he could "see why he's still only a first officer" -- but as Riker correctly pointed out at the end of Best of Both Worlds, Pt. 2, his career plans were no one else's business but his own.

Also, I think Riker's position as first officer of the Starfleet flagship may carry a certain cachet in the ranks. And for all we know, a number of other Starfleet captains and admirals may have also moved up the chain of command as cautiously as Riker did. Not everyone has to be the youngest captain in Starfleet history, after all!

And regarding your first point about Captain Picard, yes, he lost two ships under his command, but he ascended to command the Stargazer while quite young and it appears he blazed a first contact trail while in command, something the Federation probably looks favorably upon. And when he lost the Enterprise-D, he wasn't on the bridge. Yes, I know captains are responsible for what happens on their ships, but let's not forget the facts.

Red Ranger
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Last edited by Red Reindeer; June 25 2008 at 12:57 AM. Reason: (Clarified a point.)
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Old June 27 2008, 01:02 AM   #44
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Re: Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

Actually, his career plans are not simply his own... the fleet brass has a say in it
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Old June 27 2008, 01:12 AM   #45
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Re: Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

TighsEye wrote: View Post
Actually, his career plans are not simply his own... the fleet brass has a say in it
Well, this is a fictional paramilitary organization, so your interpretation may or may not be correct. I think Starfleet officers are allowed certain latitude in their career decisions. Perhaps in time of war, the admiralty's decisions supersede an officer's personal preferences, but they weren't at war at the time, having just defeated the Borg. Riker received his field promotion during what Admiral Hansen described as a state of war, so Riker's personal preferences went out the window then. As soon as the crisis passed, his rights came back in force. Also, as I understand field promotions and field commissions, they are granted temporarily until made permanent. If Riker said, "No thanks, just keep me a commander for now," that would be it, I think. -- RR
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