RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,692
Posts: 5,430,995
Members: 24,829
Currently online: 439
Newest member: 713brianp27


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Site Forums > TrekToday News Items

TrekToday News Items Discussion of TrekToday news items

 
 
Thread Tools
Old June 14 2008, 03:28 AM   #16
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: Moore On Escaping 'The Box'

BSG at its worst isn't nearly as depressing as VOY and the first three seasons of ENT.
Temis the Vorta is offline  
Old June 14 2008, 03:36 AM   #17
Gep Malakai
Vice Admiral
 
Gep Malakai's Avatar
 
Send a message via AIM to Gep Malakai Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Gep Malakai
Re: Moore On Escaping 'The Box'

^

That's one way of looking at it.
__________________
"From the darkness you must fall, failed and weak, to darkness all."
-Kataris
Gep Malakai is offline  
Old June 14 2008, 08:13 AM   #18
Samuel T. Cogley
Vice Admiral
 
Samuel T. Cogley's Avatar
 
Location: Hold still, Jim.
Re: Moore On Escaping 'The Box'

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
BSG at its worst isn't nearly as depressing as VOY and the first three seasons of ENT.
__________________
"If I didn't keep getting distracted by an avatar showing a sombrero'd dog getting his engineering hull penis substitute cut off I'd probably say that the above post was a point well made." - ITL
Samuel T. Cogley is offline  
Old June 14 2008, 09:34 AM   #19
Hermiod
Admiral
 
Hermiod's Avatar
 
Re: Moore On Escaping 'The Box'

MattJC wrote: View Post
I doubt this clown will be happy until Star Trek is as dark and depressing as the new BSG is.
Don't be ridiculous.

As Moore pointed out, the kind of thing he was looking to do in TNG, they had already done in TOS. TNG's "we all love each other" approach hurt the first couple of seasons and it got a lot better when they stopped it.

It's okay for people in a television show, even people who care about each other, to not always see eye to eye.
Hermiod is offline  
Old June 14 2008, 02:05 PM   #20
Chemahkuu
Vice Admiral
 
Chemahkuu's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Send a message via Yahoo to Chemahkuu
Re: Moore On Escaping 'The Box'

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
BSG at its worst isn't nearly as depressing as VOY and the first three seasons of ENT.
True

One of the reasons I can rarely watch TNG these days, despite having grown up watching it, is exactly the sort of "goodie preachy" attitude TNG takes.

Perfect Humans have no drama to them, it has to come from an outside source like the alien of the week dilemma. Too flawed or indecisive, some of the melancholy DS9 characters, then it just gets too mired in that kind of depressing storyline.

I wouldn't mind more realistic Human drama in the newer Trek projects, not necessarily darker, just more believable "people".
__________________
"But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake."
Chemahkuu is offline  
Old June 14 2008, 04:38 PM   #21
Augustus
Fleet Captain
 
Augustus's Avatar
 
Location: Sadly, not in Texas
Re: Moore On Escaping 'The Box'

This is part of the reason why DS9 was my favorite series. The characters had more depth beyond their evolved sense of humanity.
__________________
I don't know... I didn't go.
Augustus is offline  
Old June 14 2008, 06:47 PM   #22
Charlie Kelly
Commodore
 
Charlie Kelly's Avatar
 
Location: York, United Kingdom
Re: Moore On Escaping 'The Box'

But the Next Generation was a good show. If Moore had been allowed to make the changes he wanted it wouldn't have made TNG a better show but a different show. Conflict among the characters is only one way of creating drama.

Charlie
Charlie Kelly is offline  
Old June 14 2008, 09:52 PM   #23
Lieut. Arex
Fleet Captain
 
Lieut. Arex's Avatar
 
Location: Nav console
Re: Moore On Escaping 'The Box'

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
MattJC wrote: View Post
I doubt this clown will be happy until Star Trek is as dark and depressing as the new BSG is.
God forbid Star Trek should ever be good enough to win a Peabody Award.
"The Big Goodbye" won a Peabody.
Lieut. Arex is offline  
Old June 14 2008, 11:08 PM   #24
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: Moore On Escaping 'The Box'

Lieut. Arex wrote: View Post
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
MattJC wrote: View Post
I doubt this clown will be happy until Star Trek is as dark and depressing as the new BSG is.
God forbid Star Trek should ever be good enough to win a Peabody Award.
"The Big Goodbye" won a Peabody.
I was thinking more in terms of sappy-happy VOY and ENT not winning...

But I'm also not entirely sure that episode of TNG is up to the same level of BSG anyway.
Temis the Vorta is offline  
Old June 15 2008, 03:30 AM   #25
sidious618
Admiral
 
sidious618's Avatar
 
Location: New York, US
Send a message via AIM to sidious618
Re: Moore On Escaping 'The Box'

As always, I agree with Ron. I think his comments are spot on and they highlight what I disliked about TNG.
__________________
We've met before, haven't we?
sidious618 is offline  
Old June 15 2008, 04:04 AM   #26
startrekwatcher
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Moore On Escaping 'The Box'

I think there is enough room for all different styles/types of sci-fi shows. There isn't anything wrong with the kind of upbeat attitude TNG had with its episodi storylines and modest ensemble. Moore and the other writers might have found it a challenge to work within its limitations set by Roddenberry and upheld by Michael Piller but I thought it put out a lot of entertaining hours of tv that I stll enjoy rewatching to this day.

Moore was one of Trek's better writers but I do think some of the hero worship directed towards him is a bit much. BSG was a great show in its first season along with the first 8 or so episodes of season two but ever since 2.5 I don't find it to be outstanding television. The Cylons never really had a plan, the Cylons aren't that interesting an adversary, the writing staff seems to have trouble with juggling everything and cramming too much material into an episode that ends up on the cutting room floor which leads to a choppy feel to the narrative. It isn't very well-plotted although Moore was never really strong on plot.

As far as epic serialized dramas when it comes to structure Lost/Heroes are far more impressive I think in how the writers utilize and juggle so many different characters in such elaborate interconnected ways where it feels natural and leads to a smooth narrative. BSG also has made the dark and shocking predictable because you just know if it is grim or depressing that is where the story is heading. Then there is the constant shouting and abusing that constantly goes on between the characters and the odd need by the directors to get as close-up on the characters to capture their grim expressions and the spit flying from their mouths as they go off on one another. And I think Moore has gone too far with making a lot of the characters so unlikeable. It is as bad I think as making them perfect little people.
startrekwatcher is offline  
Old June 15 2008, 04:05 AM   #27
startrekwatcher
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Moore On Escaping 'The Box'

I think there is enough room for all different styles/types of sci-fi shows. There isn't anything wrong with the kind of upbeat attitude TNG had with its episodic storylines and modest ensemble. Moore and the other writers might have found it a challenge to work within its limitations set by Roddenberry and upheld by Michael Piller but I thought it put out a lot of entertaining hours of tv that I stll enjoy rewatching to this day.

Moore was one of Trek's better writers but I do think some of the hero worship directed towards him is a bit much. BSG was a great show in its first season along with the first 8 or so episodes of season two but ever since 2.5 I don't find it to be outstanding television. The Cylons never really had a plan, the Cylons aren't that interesting an adversary, the writing staff seems to have trouble with juggling everything and cramming too much material into an episode that ends up on the cutting room floor which leads to a choppy feel to the narrative. It isn't very well-plotted although Moore was never really strong on plot.

As far as epic serialized dramas when it comes to structure Lost/Heroes are far more impressive I think in how the writers utilize and juggle so many different characters in such elaborate interconnected ways where it feels natural and leads to a smooth narrative. BSG also has made the dark and shocking predictable because you just know if it is grim or depressing that is where the story is heading. Then there is the constant shouting and abusing that constantly goes on between the characters and the odd need by the directors to get as close-up on the characters to capture their grim expressions and the spit flying from their mouths as they go off on one another. And I think Moore has gone too far with making a lot of the characters so unlikeable. It is as bad I think as making them perfect little people.
startrekwatcher is offline  
Old June 15 2008, 11:33 PM   #28
Pioneer
Captain
 
Re: Moore On Escaping 'The Box'

Thank you, "startrekwatcher", sir. I agree.

I think it's sad that the writers are so unimaginative that they can't write a good story without "petty jealousies and greed and all that...bickering". It is they, themselves, who are in a box, not Roddenberry. They have a whole universe of ideas at their disposal except what's in the "Roddenberry Box". Just because people have learned to get along by the 24th century, doesn't mean there can't be conflict. It's just that Roddenberry predicted that by the 24th century, (maybe not the 23rd), people would no longer physically/psychologically abuse/neglect their kids and most people would grow up well adjusted and with high self-esteem. The "poisonous pedagogy", as psychologists call it, would be cured and eradicated, like polio or smallpox. People will have learned to get along. They will have eschewed the pettiness.

Now, starting with that premise, you mean to tell me that a good writer can't develop a good and interesting story? Give me a break! The problem, as I see it, is that the writers are stuck in the 20th/21st century and can't think outside their little pathological box.

And if writers like Ira Stephen Behr don't like the Roddenberry universe, they really should be writing for another show. Perhaps by the 24th century, people won't have this overweening need to be "different" and dye their hair blue to prove it.
They will recognize and be taught as children that we are all unique and will accept themselves as they are without having to hurt other people in order to feel good about themselves.

Of course, the audience still lives in the 20th/21st century. Oh, well.
__________________
Looking to build Element #137 (Feynmanium)
Pioneer is offline  
Old June 15 2008, 11:43 PM   #29
Samuel T. Cogley
Vice Admiral
 
Samuel T. Cogley's Avatar
 
Location: Hold still, Jim.
Re: Moore On Escaping 'The Box'

Thanks the gods Ronald Moore felt so constrained on Star Trek. It was all that constraint (generated by "perfect Starfleet people") that caused him to explode and create "Battlestar Galactica."

Thank you, Gene Roddenberry!

I owe you another one.
__________________
"If I didn't keep getting distracted by an avatar showing a sombrero'd dog getting his engineering hull penis substitute cut off I'd probably say that the above post was a point well made." - ITL
Samuel T. Cogley is offline  
Old June 16 2008, 12:27 AM   #30
M
Vice Admiral
 
M's Avatar
 
Re: Moore On Escaping 'The Box'

Wonderful interview. RDM is a great guy.
__________________
Bashir: »Out of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?«
Garak: »My dear doctor, they're all true.«
Bashir: »Even the lies?«
Garak: »Especially the lies.«
M is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:39 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.