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Old September 8 2008, 10:13 PM   #151
JBElliott
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Re: deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

GilmourD wrote: View Post
deg3D wrote: View Post
JBElliott wrote: View Post
On the subject of whether a starship capable of the things the Enterprise is will have hull plating is another matter. Given the energy output of warp engines, the level of computational power, transporter technology and scanning technology shown in TOS, it's within the realm of TOS possibility to "beam" the entire Enterprise into existence as a single piece.
Oh, and before I forget this; OK then. But, along those lines, why not just come up with a method to gather and channel enough power to transport anyone or anything to any place in the universe?

Why have starships at all?

Opps, there goes the show, or at least it then gets called StarGate.

Never-mind.

deg
I thought it had been addressed that the energy requirements to replicate an entire ship were extraordinarily huge and impossible given even late 24th century technology.
Given the power output of the warp engines shown in the show, the computer power shown and the fact that live beings (much more complicated that starships) are routinely transported all the time in TOS, it all adds up to being able to "replicate" or beam in a full starship (or at the very least large parts of it). There's nothing in TOS that says it can't be done and all the level of technology they show suggests it is.
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Old September 8 2008, 10:16 PM   #152
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Re: deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

JBElliott wrote: View Post
Well there have been stories in the various incarnations of Star Trek that has dealt with that. In one James Blish novel (Spock must die!) I think they did something with ultra long distance transport that split Spock into two beings, one human and one Vulcan. I confess I haven't read it since the eighth grade though.

I seem to recall some TNG (or maybe it was Voyager?) where the crew was part of a test of some system to transport an entire ship several light years in an instant.

Finally, in Enterprise, wasn't there an episode with the guy who invented the transporter where it was suggested that the curvature of space made long range transportation impossible?

See, so you can still beam a starship together and it's still necessary since beaming has too many limitations.
If I recall, that was VOY, and wasn't Barclay associated with that project (w/Troi even making an appearance at some point too), like a transporter beam through a wormhole, but all they could end up doing at that point was sending and receiving transmissions...

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Old September 8 2008, 10:16 PM   #153
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Re: deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

deg3D wrote: View Post
I mean my God, does every deck and room in E have a friggin' halogen arch-light spot-light as the lighting apparatus / source?
On a slightly different topic, why would Starfleet need spotlights on the outside of the ship? Surely by the 23rd century they'd have invented self luminescent material. That is the hull of the ship itself would be luminescent and need no spotlights. The degree to which TOS Enterprise is illuminated in deep space with no spotlights is consistent with the idea of a luminescent hull.
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Old September 8 2008, 10:19 PM   #154
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Re: deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

JBElliott wrote: View Post
GilmourD wrote: View Post
deg3D wrote: View Post

Oh, and before I forget this; OK then. But, along those lines, why not just come up with a method to gather and channel enough power to transport anyone or anything to any place in the universe?

Why have starships at all?

Opps, there goes the show, or at least it then gets called StarGate.

Never-mind.

deg
I thought it had been addressed that the energy requirements to replicate an entire ship were extraordinarily huge and impossible given even late 24th century technology.
Given the power output of the warp engines shown in the show, the computer power shown and the fact that live beings (much more complicated that starships) are routinely transported all the time in TOS, it all adds up to being able to "replicate" or beam in a full starship (or at the very least large parts of it). There's nothing in TOS that says it can't be done and all the level of technology they show suggests it is.

Sure sure, I'm totally with ya my friend. I still like hull palting though.

deg
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Old September 8 2008, 10:27 PM   #155
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Re: deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

JBElliott wrote: View Post
deg3D wrote: View Post
I mean my God, does every deck and room in E have a friggin' halogen arch-light spot-light as the lighting apparatus / source?
On a slightly different topic, why would Starfleet need spotlights on the outside of the ship? Surely by the 23rd century they'd have invented self luminescent material. That is the hull of the ship itself would be luminescent and need no spotlights. The degree to which TOS Enterprise is illuminated in deep space with no spotlights is consistent with the idea of a luminescent hull.
Again, I think that's just a product of production, with no thought given (or at least not much as it's not really relevant as a consideration), as you have to be able to see the ship for simple narrative story-telling and for drama's sake.

Plus, I feel using stuff that viewers have an associative connection with helps -- bridge -- the gap for reality's sake, and makes the show more believable to the general audience, as the average person for the most part does not even consider the proposed tech or the speculative tech of what they are seeing. That is the realm of the uber-Trek-geek (myself included in that description).

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Old September 8 2008, 11:35 PM   #156
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Re: deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

deg3D wrote: View Post
Sure sure, I'm totally with ya my friend. I still like hull palting though.

deg
As you say, it's a matter of taste.
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Old September 8 2008, 11:42 PM   #157
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Re: deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

deg3D wrote: View Post
Again, I think that's just a product of production, with no thought given (or at least not much as it's not really relevant as a consideration), as you have to be able to see the ship for simple narrative story-telling and for drama's sake.

Plus, I feel using stuff that viewers have an associative connection with helps -- bridge -- the gap for reality's sake, and makes the show more believable to the general audience, as the average person for the most part does not even consider the proposed tech or the speculative tech of what they are seeing. That is the realm of the uber-Trek-geek (myself included in that description).

deg
I'm not sure the audience would balk at the ship being illuminated in deep space. Just as they don't balk when they see the laws of physics being broken in almost every scene in Star Trek. So just show a lighted ship that's pretty and leave it at that. Let us uber-Trek-geeks worry about how things work and sell us technical manuals. The treknobable that came about so much in TNG was something I heard Roddenberry wanted to stay away from. Kirk just fliped open his communicator and talked, he just pointed the phaser and fired and so on. He didn't spend a minute and a half expounding on how the communicators subspace tranceiever and duotronic circuits allowed for it all to happen.

So I think I agree with you that the illuminated ship and lack of hull plating in TOS was something that was done in production with no real thought of any "plot points." Having said that, we can discuss how those things would work in the Trek universe and whether they look nice or not.
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Old September 9 2008, 12:08 AM   #158
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Re: deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

Indeed, Trek-Talk is uber-fun IMO.

And oh yeah, I agree, an audience would not balk at an illuminated ship in deep space, quite the contrary, I think it's expected as a sci-fi given at this point, even if the ship is traveling faster than light, LOL.

My wife (who loves Trek, in a regular type of way) once asked me (and she is a very intelligent woman with a Master's Degree in literature and language arts, physics is just not her thang), she asked me in a sincere matter-of-fact tone, as to the ISS, Why don't they just turn on the gravity like on Star Trek?

Oh Honee...

We still laugh about that one to this day. But hey, mutual love of TOS Trek is actually what sealed the deal for us as a couple. After she passed a lil' TOS test to prove she wasn't just smoozin' my Trek-geek. She passed with flying colors , so, I married her shortly after that, 9 years ago. Been Trek-like bliss ever since.

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Old September 9 2008, 05:48 PM   #159
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Re: deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

Right. In true "To boldly go where no one has gone before" Trek fashion I have redone the bussard efx, finally arriving at a result I am quite pleased with.

As with E and/or Trek art I fully expect the usual breadth on reactions/opinions; Some will love it, some will like it, some won't care one way or the other, and some will hate it. Can't please all the peeps all the time eh. But, at the least, I finally like to efx, and in addition I am quite happy to be going in a new fresh direction with it, as I love change/evolution of ideas.

The stats and orthos shots have been updated in their original post (as well as all the detail shots on my website).

Hope you enjoy her as much as I do.

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Old September 9 2008, 06:49 PM   #160
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Re: deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

I think that looks great. What color are those blades, there? Maybe they would stand out a little more if they were a darker blue or even green. I really like the way it turned out with the blue bussards. I may need to re-texture my enterprise with some blue or green ones. You may have inspired me to make a Romulan captured constitution class.

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Old September 9 2008, 07:02 PM   #161
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Re: deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

Thanks dude.

The vanes are reflecting, in my view, the impression of heat build-up from the plasma swirling and churning all around them, and I didn't want them to stand out too much, as I am a "less is more" type of guy. That is the reason I redid them, as I felt they were way too garish and over-the-top. As it is, I am quite happy with them, but thanks for your suggestions.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with on your E.

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Old September 9 2008, 08:22 PM   #162
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Re: deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

deg3D wrote: View Post
Right. In true "To boldly go where no one has gone before" Trek fashion I have redone the bussard efx, finally arriving at a result I am quite pleased with.
Sweet Zombie Phobos! That's a fine piece of starship! The blue looks outstanding on the bussards, and the ship really has come together in this picture. I think it looks absolutely amazing.

Rob+
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Old September 9 2008, 09:04 PM   #163
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Re: deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

FatherRob wrote: View Post
deg3D wrote: View Post
Right. In true "To boldly go where no one has gone before" Trek fashion I have redone the bussard efx, finally arriving at a result I am quite pleased with.
Sweet Zombie Phobos! That's a fine piece of starship! The blue looks outstanding on the bussards, and the ship really has come together in this picture. I think it looks absolutely amazing.

Rob+
I had a feeling you would approve Rob+.

Glad you like her. I look forward to seeing your practical that CH comes up with.

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Old September 10 2008, 12:54 AM   #164
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Re: deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

To give you some more publicity, I posted your images (with links to this thread and your web page) over at The Official Star Trek Movie Forum. The reception there was good just like it has been here. The only odd comment was that the design was a bit "to low res for a film" although I'm not sure what that means. It's perfect res for a film in my opinions.
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Old September 10 2008, 01:13 AM   #165
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Re: deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

JBElliott wrote: View Post
To give you some more publicity, I posted your images (with links to this thread and your web page) over at The Official Star Trek Movie Forum. The reception there was good just like it has been here. The only odd comment was that the design was a bit "to low res for a film" although I'm not sure what that means. It's perfect res for a film in my opinions.
Ah thanks dude, I posted it up over there as well. Now where is your thread on her, so I can respond and or inquire as to this low resolution comment? Got a link?

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