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Old February 13 2009, 03:25 AM   #121
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

That's what I'd always supposed, which in turn led me to the false assumption that the ship's scale was also changed between the pilots.

I had always imagined that around 200 was the minimum needed of each branch you needed to run the ship and fulfill the most basic of missions, and the 430 included full medical and science departments, yeomen, assistant/relief personnel, and so forth.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:27 AM   #122
Captain Robert April
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

There's also the approach that prior to "The Corbomite Maneuver", ships weren't sent out on "five year missions", just various assignments that never went too far out of range of the nearest starbase.

The increase in crew complement might have more to do with the now-longer missions.

As for the bridge, that taller dome always looked somewhat out of proportion, so shortening it certainly helped asthetically.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:51 AM   #123
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Good thoughts.

Paralleling what we were talking about on the other thread, did you reference the TMoST drawing any when you were laying out the original version of your plans?
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Old February 14 2009, 07:06 AM   #124
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Not much.
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Old February 14 2009, 07:48 AM   #125
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Did you chose to disregard them for a particular reason, or did you just already have it said how you thought it would go?
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Old February 16 2009, 07:59 PM   #126
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

TMoST's discrepancies are pretty well documented, not the least of which is how the drawings don't match the eleven footer. And that is the whole point, to fill in the eleven footer.

Besides, I think some folks have overinterpreted that 8 1/2 x 11 cross section over the years, reading things in that aren't necessarily there. Plus, Jefferies' view of the Enterprise always seemed to be in a state of flux, so any details from that end of the scale should always be viewed with at least a few grains of salt.
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Old March 10 2009, 07:54 PM   #127
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Done. I shall return with a short list, in the hopes of inspiring you.
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Old March 11 2009, 05:14 PM   #128
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

So I'm waiting and waiting... what ABOUT the bowling alley?
I still have to build one in my TOS VRML Enterprise...
I've been trying to gather dimensions and designs...

Would they use transporters for pin-spotting?

I want to know - I NEED to know!
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Old March 13 2009, 07:28 AM   #129
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

At the moment, I'm leaning towards having "the bowling alley" being one of several programs available in that early holodeck we saw in TAS' "The Practical Joker". Solves a multitude of problems that way.
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Old March 13 2009, 03:14 PM   #130
BrookeStephen
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
At the moment, I'm leaning towards having "the bowling alley" being one of several programs available in that early holodeck we saw in TAS' "The Practical Joker". Solves a multitude of problems that way.
Ya know "holodecks" were added to TOS posthumously. By adding them to the "Enterprise" series, and first showing their use in TNG, you pretty much inject them into TOS. Only problem is, there's no holodecks in the FJ deckplans, and that's what I'm using for my model...

So it's going to be a real bowling alley.
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Old March 13 2009, 04:20 PM   #131
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Technically, though, it was shown on TAS and mentioned in a roundabout way in TMoST. I'd say they wanted to have it but the budget prevented it.

Say, CRA, I just realized I don't have that most recent cross-section. Would you post it that I might nitpick?
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Old March 13 2009, 05:53 PM   #132
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

The fact is, I don't have the most recent one, either (it went buh-bye when I lost that computer in the eviction purge). I do have a thumbnail, though.

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Old March 13 2009, 06:36 PM   #133
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Ohh, that really sucks. The last set of yours I had saved is obviously older than that. How recent is the most recent one you have? (Incidentally, how is the computer you're using doing?)

A few thoughts:
1) Escape pod size. I vaguely remember you having a specific reason for making them so big (was it the discolored panels?) but I still think they're a bit too big.

2) Power transfer line from impulse engine to power manifold - it seems more logical to have this follow a line parallel to the rear neck line, then bend downward, rather than the odd angles it seems to take.

3) Neck reinforcement - I remember you having trellis bracing on another version. Personally, I see a couple of structural beams as being enough.

4) Deuterium tank - I would suggest removing the TNG-style tank and using two or three smaller 'pod' tanks that could hold similar volume. More a stylistic thing for me than anything else, as I think it highlights technological evolution from TOS to TNG.

5) Engineering placement - I suggest switching them, and eliminating the green path from the matter/antimatter integrator running to the nacelle. Instead, have this flow into the manifold, and leave the red path that goes to the nacelle as-is. This would, IMO, simplify it greatly and also allow for an elevator/staging area behind the hangar deck evocative of what is shown in TMP and TFF.

6) Lower engineering - the one at the forward bottom of the secondary hull. I don't really think this is necessary. Storage might be better use of this space.

7) Antimatter pods/antimatter generator/deuterium injector - I think it might be worthwhile to actually put the antimatter pods below the power manifold so they could eject together, and shift the other two forward so they line up with the other ports. The last small port could then become the tractor beam.

I almost mentioned the sensor pod bay, but I think the setup you concocted works pretty well for something that I don't think was a part of the original design setup.

Now I know you had reasons for putting things where you did, which might address almost everything I've outlined. Feel free to use or disregard any suggestions as you see fit.
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Old March 13 2009, 06:41 PM   #134
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

BrookeStephen wrote: View Post
Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
At the moment, I'm leaning towards having "the bowling alley" being one of several programs available in that early holodeck we saw in TAS' "The Practical Joker". Solves a multitude of problems that way.
Ya know "holodecks" were added to TOS posthumously. By adding them to the "Enterprise" series, and first showing their use in TNG, you pretty much inject them into TOS. Only problem is, there's no holodecks in the FJ deckplans, and that's what I'm using for my model...

So it's going to be a real bowling alley.
If memory serves? The "holodeck" mentioned in TMoST is what we eventually saw in TAS, But when FJ was drawing up his plans (Before TAS) he either misunderstood the TMoST's referance, or simply re-interpreted it? Either way, we end up with his deck 8 "entertainment center". However, in interviews I've read (help me out here, FalTorPan) FJ did say that he intended his "Personal Rec/Relaxation" rooms to be mini "holdecks".
In my own retcon of FJ's "Achernar" sub-class into MJ's "Bonhomie Richards" sub-class, I've simply removed FJ's shrubery and divided the area up into three large "holodecks".

Last edited by TIN_MAN; March 13 2009 at 07:01 PM.
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Old March 13 2009, 06:52 PM   #135
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Re: Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

I think the reason that the reference to the proto-holodeck is interpreted different ways is because there is another mention following that in TMoST from Roddenberry that indicates that the 'recreation area' was built and would appear in season three, and by logical extension that it was the large botany set seen in (among others) 'And the Children Shall Lead.'

I don't see why the proto-holodeck wouldn't just be behind a door off of this facility.

Also, we should think up a name that isn't holodeck. Or proto-holodeck. I don't think it works like TNG holodecks. I think it's a combination of non-replicated projections and climate/fragrance modifications that aren't as sophisticated as the TNG setup.
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