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Old July 13 2011, 05:05 AM   #271
Vance
Vice Admiral
 
Re: "Star Trek: Phase II" Enterprise

Psion wrote: View Post
Note that in 1978 LED technology wasn't nearly as advanced as it is today. Discrete LED emitters were capable of red, orange, yellow, and green ... and I'm not even sure green was widely available yet in 1978. Blue and white (blue with a phosphor coat to re-emit the blue in a broader spectrum) options didn't become available until the mid-to-late 1980s.
I'm not sure what the Phase II Enterprise would have used, but models were using yellow LEDs for Battlestar Galactica and Buck Rogers at the time. Overlighting it in the studio would have made it pale enough to serve as white illumination.
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Old July 13 2011, 05:10 AM   #272
Maurice
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Re: "Star Trek: Phase II" Enterprise

Vance wrote: View Post
DS9Sega wrote: View Post
Are you sure this wasn't just a piece that would be cut out in order to mount a light?
It wouldn't press against the dome, it would be covered by it. The dome wasn't going to be a flat piece like with the TOS model (shown on the prints) but a concave thingie (yes, that's the technical term, thingie, dammit!) It was supposed to be a more sophisiticated lighting setup for the ship than what had been done up until that point.
The refit nav deflector is concave, the dome over the bridge is convex.

I can't speak to the "insets" you said you saw on a photo. All the photos I've seen of the model are at a stage where the bridge dome appears to just be the solid casting we see in the photos with a half-donut indentation in the top, as seen on the left photo in the image linked below.

The plans show a shallow TOS type dome that would--at the scale of the model--would have cleared the nub by maybe 1/4 inch. Or are you saying and array of lights would have set in the concave bundt-cake pan?

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Old August 20 2011, 04:01 AM   #273
ATMachine
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Re: "Star Trek: Phase II" Enterprise

DS9Sega wrote: View Post
I think, as Dennis's renderd prove, it's a much better looking ship than some people give it credit for. It's not as beautifully refined as the refit we got—it's the last 20% that makes or breaks a design—but still nice ship.

From the renderings I've seen, and Minor's painting, above, it looks like the nacelle caps were intended to just be the hull color.

HOWEVER, it appears Minor kept reworking the painting as the show developed, and even refit-ized it once.


Click HERE for a bigger image

As it happens, I just found a magazine which features one version of the Mike Minor rendering from 1978 that looks a lot like the one posted by Dennis (previous message), but without the whoosh lines, and with an interesting detail that I haven't seen clearly elsewhere.

EDIT: here it is



A higher res scan is HERE: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2082/...a6e79d_b_d.jpg

The scan, unfortunately, doesn't show the relevant bits as clearly as they appear on the original magazine pages, despite my best attempts. But the lines around the nacelle caps and the major lines on the inboard warp grills appear to be painted the same way as the glowing windows and lights on the rest of the ship. There's no black around the grilles, as on the TMP refit. Whether this means they were intended to glow, or if it was just sort artistic florish, I can't tell you.

The deflector dish, while in shadow, has a bluish gray cast to it in this painting.

I also noticed there's no NCC number or any of these pre-TMP design renderings. My guess is, when they decided to put the grilles on the outboard sides of the necelles, thye noved the registry to the secondary hull and deliberately left it off the nacelles.

Make of all this what you will.
DS9Sega, what magazine did you scan the lower Mike Minor painting (the one with the added Paint insets) from? I'd be curious to track it down, even though it's also reproduced in The Art of Star Trek.
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Old August 20 2011, 03:42 PM   #274
Captain Robert April
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Re: "Star Trek: Phase II" Enterprise

I think it's an old issue of Starlog.
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Old August 20 2011, 07:55 PM   #275
publiusr
Commodore
 
Re: "Star Trek: Phase II" Enterprise

Great find. It might be nice to see Minor's version truly fleshed as someone did with the Bonaventure. The lower saucer would be more moundlike, with the secondary hull smaller than it was on the proper refit.
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Old August 26 2011, 11:46 PM   #276
ATMachine
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Re: "Star Trek: Phase II" Enterprise

As for Dennis' work, it's truly astounding. Indisputably the best model of the Phase II Enterprise made yet, in my opinion.

That said, I hope a few suggestions for improvements are not out of place, even at this late date. Bear in mind that none of this is crucial, though, as it's already a fine ship.

1) You should probably remove the upper serifs from the numeral 1s on the hull registry decals. Both Matt Jefferies' blueprints and photographs of Phase II models by Andrew Probert show that the decals of the number 1 on the Phase II E had no serifs, instead being plain vertical lines.

(Incidentally, using serif-less 1s is the registry style Matt Jefferies used for the decals on the TOS pilot Enterprise in The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before, as well as in his writers' guide diagrams of the Enterprise. He must've liked that style and gone back to it for Phase II.)

2) The two NCC-1701 decals on the underside of the saucer, as shown in both two Mike Minor paintings and the TMP theatrical poster which used the Phase II study model as a reference, both face the same way. Specifically, both decals should be legible when the ship is moving towards you--that is, when seen from the bow of the Enterprise.

I know this is contrary to how the saucer decals were laid out in TOS, and there's certainly no evidence this is actually what Matt Jefferies intended. But the circumstantial evidence indicates there was a departure from the TOS decal placement, if nowhere else than on the Phase II study model.

As for the upper saucer registry, while the curvature of the U.S.S. Enterprise marking is different from what we saw in TOS, no painting of the Phase II E depicts the upper side of the saucer, so there's no reason to change it.

3) The warp nacelles. The hardest part of the ship to get right...

a) The nacelle caps. As you've said, you've "cheated" them by using a glowing blue light there, which swirls like the rotating-fan lights of the original TOS nacelles--something plainly impossible on the original model.

Several of Mike Minor's illustrations, including this one so far not linked in the thread (plus the aforementioned TMP poster) suggest the nacelle caps were in fact blue, similar to the deflector dish. Of course, having them be the exact same dark gunmetal-blue color would be problematic visually.

I suspect that, as with the registry decal style, Matt Jefferies returned to the pilot design of the Enterprise for inspiration, and I think you should do the same.

Instead of a dark gunmetal-blue, I suggest using a lighter, bolder blue on the nacelle caps--the Phase II equivalent of the solid red nacelle caps from The Cage and WNMHGB. This would be an artistic liberty, true, yet it's still rather "truer" to what the modelmakers intended.

b) The warp grilles. I personally think that anticipating the TMP glowing grilles is a bit odd. My own design preference would be to sculpt the grilles with actual gleaming metal struts, as seen on the half-completed Phase II model (and the molds used in its casting).

Also, what's with that curved area of black space just aft of the glowing purple grilles? It seems too TMP-esque to my mind. I've always interpreted this area as hull-colored, based on how it appears in blueprints, on the molds, and on the model as (half) built. This way, the warp grilles are properly rectangular in outline.

c) The registry on the nacelles. Again, too much of an anticipation of TMP for my taste. My personal thinking has always been that Jefferies moved the registry decals that were formerly on the nacelles to the secondary hull when he redesigned the ship, so there would be no NCC-1701 on the nacelles. Also, neither Minor's paintings nor the TMP poster include such a detail.

4) The photon torpedo tube. Specifically, the red glow at its mouth. I think this may be a mistake, as the Phase II Writers' Guide (quoted in The Lost Series) indicates this was originally intended as the main phaser array! That's probably why the tube's mouth seems almost to form two intersecting circles--it was made to fit twin phaser beams. Thus, I would remove the red torpedo-room glow, and leave the area a solid black--just as on the Mike Minor paintings.

All this is merely by way of feedback, in an effort to suggest how you could make your model even better. Of course, feel free to disregard any or all of my advice... after all, you're the guy with the fabulous 3D model.

Last edited by ATMachine; August 27 2011 at 12:00 AM.
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