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Old May 3 2008, 03:41 PM   #31
ancient
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Re: 'Star Wars' Fan Abrams On Making New 'Star Trek'

TJinPgh wrote: View Post
ancient wrote: View Post
Abrams found something in Star Trek that appealed to him, and wanted to improve upon it. "It was an opportunity to take what I think has been a maligned world to sound crass, a franchise and treat it in a way that made it something that I wanted to see," said Abrams "To take the characters, the thoughtfulness, the personalities, the sense of adventure, the idea of humanity working together, the sense of social commentary and innovation, all that stuff. To take it and apply it in a way that felt genuinely thrilling."
If this is what he's focusing on, he is being true to Star Trek.
Judging by some of the casting choices and character descriptions (McCoy and Sulu most notably), I can't agree.
Can't say I've noticed anything about those characters significantly different.

Now if the J.J. Abrams fans consider ST-XI to appeal to a general audience, then ST-XII may attract a general audience and then only if J.J. Abrams directs it. So don't get your hopes up people.
...No matter how I read that, it makes no sense. I'm not sure those words are supposed to go together like that.
It makes total sense.

He's saying that the notion that a Trek movie is EVER going to generate broad range appeal is naive.

IF Abrams were a Scorsese or Spielburg, then people would possibly overlook their general preconceived notions about Trek and go to see it simply because he's doing it.

Abrams, despite all of the media hype, doesn't have that kind of following. And, his involvement in it is likely to generate very little buzz.
Nevermind, I mis-read those roman numerals, so that was my mistake. However, I still don't agree that Trek cannot have broad range appeal. I still say there's nothing that seperates Trek from any other nerdy/poorly managed franchise that can't be changed. And probably will be.

If you are right though, than Trek is dead and nothing can save it. So I'd sit back and enjoy the new movie anyway.
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Old May 3 2008, 08:31 PM   #32
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Re: 'Star Wars' Fan Abrams On Making New 'Star Trek'

TJinPgh wrote: View Post

I've been waiting since word of this movie first hit the web to be given one single reason to go see this movie other than having "Star Trek" in the title.

I have yet to be given one. And, I've seen plenty to make me not want to go.
It is certainly your right to not go see it, but relax and have a little fun. For abrams, this is a $150 million gamble that he seems pretty happy about...

For us, well it is a $8 gamble.

If this movie is the greatest thing ever or if it bombs, it won't add any more or any less legitimacy to my life or my star trek fandom.
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Old May 4 2008, 02:28 PM   #33
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Re: 'Star Wars' Fan Abrams On Making New 'Star Trek'

cubbie wrote: View Post
You have to be very careful in this forum about what you post, since it doesn't have an edit feature.

I know Hoser previously asked Matt to tone down a bit, but he was provoked to give his angry response. That's one of the reasons I'm not giving out an infraction; the immediate apology is the second reason.

However, if this continues, I can't be so lenient next time.
So, you're the assigned censor or "moderator" as you call it. I can see that free and unpopular speech ist verboten in this forum. This forum is being operated in the United States of America, right? The same USA with a Constitution which has as it's FIRST amendment the right to free expression, right. Did Matt's comments put anyone's life, liberty, or property in jeopardy? I think not. A little power is a dangerous thing.
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Old May 4 2008, 07:07 PM   #34
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Re: 'Star Wars' Fan Abrams On Making New 'Star Trek'

Now that you mention it, yeah, cubbie is the moderator of this forum. And it's a private forum, with rules against Flaming and Trolling; everybody agrees to abide by those rules when they join. We're all guests in somebody else's house here.
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Old May 4 2008, 10:21 PM   #35
ancient
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Re: 'Star Wars' Fan Abrams On Making New 'Star Trek'

Censorship f_____ing rules!

So, can the mods edit stuff here? If not, what happens if someone posts a picture or link of questionable content? Grin and 'bare' it?

Did Matt's comments put anyone's life, liberty, or property in jeopardy? I think not. A little power is a dangerous thing.
Normally you aren't allowed to flame other folks just to keep the board from turning into a battlefield and all that.

Now inexplicable idiocy, that's not something they censor here, but other things, like[rest of post censored]

D'oh!
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Old May 5 2008, 02:20 AM   #36
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Re: 'Star Wars' Fan Abrams On Making New 'Star Trek'

ancient wrote: View Post
However, I still don't agree that Trek cannot have broad range appeal. I still say there's nothing that seperates Trek from any other nerdy/poorly managed franchise that can't be changed. And probably will be.
I think if we were discussing a decade or so down the right, you might be right.

Right now, however? I think the problem is, and I've said this before, EVERYBODY already has an opinion on Star Trek. For most people, that opinion is NOT a positive one, even if most people have never seen it.

We tend to do things like that in this country.

Sadly, Star Trek has been the but of jokes in this country for a LONG time. It's the die hard Trek fans and casual sci-fi fans that have kept it alive. Not the general consumer.

I've said this before, no matter how much I've loved Trek over the years, I realized a long time ago that if Trek had to survive on a major network it would have died (again) about four weeks into TNG's first season and wouldn't have been heard from since.

Abrams may believe that he has the forumula and the personal clout to change all of that.

Sorry, but I don't.

I don't believe unpopular actors and weak special effects have anything to do with the declining box of Trek films. I don't think that was true in the case of Insurrection or Nemesis.

Nor do I think you can "save" it by throwing gobs of money into a film with unknown actors and gazillions of dollars worth of explosions and lasers.

People won't line up to see this movie because it's a "JJ Abrams Film" any more than they did for Cloverfield, which made money for about three weeks and promptly tanked (having made no more money than the average Trek film).

The difference is that Cloverfield cost about $35m to make. Trek will (reportedly) cost nearly 5x that.

Sorry, I simply don't see it.
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Old May 5 2008, 02:28 AM   #37
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Re: 'Star Wars' Fan Abrams On Making New 'Star Trek'

Augustus wrote: View Post
It is certainly your right to not go see it, but relax and have a little fun. For abrams, this is a $150 million gamble that he seems pretty happy about...
Why not... it's not HIS money.

He's a TV producer. Lost still draws a decent audience, as have most of his shows. Trek can sell one ticket and he'll still have a job.

For us, well it is a $8 gamble.

If this movie is the greatest thing ever or if it bombs, it won't add any more or any less legitimacy to my life or my star trek fandom.
Perhaps. And, I have never, ever, suggested anybody here NOT go to see this movie, nor anywhere else for that matter.

I have simply said why I won't be going to see it.

I decided long before this movie was announced that I would no longer patronize recasts or reinvisioned movies. I think the gamble is more than $8. I see it as incentive. Even if everybody HATES the movie, they'll have our $8. That's all they care about. And, they'll just keep doing it more and more.

I can't stop anybody else from going to it. I wouldn't even if I could. But, I have no desire to contribute to the trend.

I probably won't be going to see Get Smart, either, despite all of the stars now being deceased.

That one I MAY actually rent the video for, if it looks funny.
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Old May 5 2008, 02:50 AM   #38
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Re: 'Star Wars' Fan Abrams On Making New 'Star Trek'

[QUOTE=Pioneer;1604001]
cubbie wrote: View Post
This forum is being operated in the United States of America, right? The same USA with a Constitution which has as it's FIRST amendment the right to free expression, right.
If you do some minimal research you'll discover that the board is accessible internationally and is owned by a European. Aside from which, absolute freedom of speech is not guaranteed in the U.S. in any private facility - I can throw you out of my house for saying things I don't like, and the Constitution grants you no right whatever to challenge that.
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Old May 5 2008, 01:14 PM   #39
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Re: 'Star Wars' Fan Abrams On Making New 'Star Trek'

[quote=Starship Polaris;1605676]
Pioneer wrote: View Post
cubbie wrote: View Post
This forum is being operated in the United States of America, right? The same USA with a Constitution which has as it's FIRST amendment the right to free expression, right.
If you do some minimal research you'll discover that the board is accessible internationally and is owned by a European. Aside from which, absolute freedom of speech is not guaranteed in the U.S. in any private facility - I can throw you out of my house for saying things I don't like, and the Constitution grants you no right whatever to challenge that.
If you did some minimal research, you'd discover that most European have more rights than the US, not fewer. Also, these rights are unalienable which means that they are granted by God and/or nature by virtue of us being human. They are simply protected by the various constitutions in various ways. It's funny how those protections are quickly eliminated under the guise of private ownership. Private owners quickly become little tyrants who dictate their own personal tastes and values on others because they can. It's their right. You can suspend some aspects of free speech here because you think you want to avoid "the board from turning into a battlefield and all that". George W. Bush suspended Habeus Corpus for our "security". It's a small step. And a dangerous one.

Oh, and you can read Hume, Locke, Franklin, Jefferson, or Adams for more "inexplicable idiocy".
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Old May 5 2008, 02:40 PM   #40
TJinPgh
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Re: 'Star Wars' Fan Abrams On Making New 'Star Trek'

[quote=Starship Polaris;1605676]
Pioneer wrote: View Post
cubbie wrote: View Post
This forum is being operated in the United States of America, right? The same USA with a Constitution which has as it's FIRST amendment the right to free expression, right.
If you do some minimal research you'll discover that the board is accessible internationally and is owned by a European. Aside from which, absolute freedom of speech is not guaranteed in the U.S. in any private facility - I can throw you out of my house for saying things I don't like, and the Constitution grants you no right whatever to challenge that.
pioneer wrote:
If you did some minimal research, you'd discover that most European have more rights than the US, not fewer. Also, these rights are unalienable which means that they are granted by God and/or nature by virtue of us being human. They are simply protected by the various constitutions in various ways. It's funny how those protections are quickly eliminated under the guise of private ownership. Private owners quickly become little tyrants who dictate their own personal tastes and values on others because they can. It's their right. You can suspend some aspects of free speech here because you think you want to avoid "the board from turning into a battlefield and all that". George W. Bush suspended Habeus Corpus for our "security". It's a small step. And a dangerous one.

Oh, and you can read Hume, Locke, Franklin, Jefferson, or Adams for more "inexplicable idiocy".
Actually, you're both right (and wrong) at the same time.

While the constitution MAY grant you the right to say whatever you want. It does NOT automatically grant you the right to say it wherever you want.

Private property rights have long been known to fall under, at least in part, the freedom of association provisions of the constitution.

So, while you are, indeed, allowed to saw whatever you want, pioneer, the owner of this board (his property, as it were) is free to associate (or not) with whomever he chooses. And, he can set whatever rules for that association he wishes.

This is not a public square. You cannot simply wander in here and start posting. To do so, you agree to certain guidelines.

Admittedly, very few actually read them before agreeing to them. But, they're there, none the less.

You're still free to say whatever you wish. But, you may need to say them someplace else.

At any rate, I think we've strayed a bit from the topic.
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Old May 5 2008, 07:58 PM   #41
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Re: 'Star Wars' Fan Abrams On Making New 'Star Trek'

Re: Constitution: Yes, while I have said and agree that private property rights take precedence over general public forums, this right should be exercised with restraint.

And

Re: Off-Topic: Yes, I agree. But in a forum like this with so many smart people, the discussions can get lively. And that's a good thing.
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Old May 8 2008, 11:55 PM   #42
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Re: 'Star Wars' Fan Abrams On Making New 'Star Trek'

TJinPgh wrote: View Post

Half of the Star Trek movies that Nimoy were involved in (including the one he was responsible for) are considered among the worst.
Yes, because there is a universal consensus about the quality of Trek films, right?

And how on Earth can you say that STIV is considered "one of the worst" since it was probably the most successful of the franchise and is generally one of the most popular films of the franchise? I know not everyone likes it, but that isn't the same as being "considered among the worst."
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Old May 9 2008, 02:03 AM   #43
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Re: 'Star Wars' Fan Abrams On Making New 'Star Trek'

I have to agree, the two Nimoy films were both well recieved. But bash Nimoy, bash the film.
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Old May 9 2008, 02:26 AM   #44
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: 'Star Wars' Fan Abrams On Making New 'Star Trek'

Pioneer wrote: View Post
If you did some minimal research, you'd discover that most European have more rights than the US, not fewer. Also, these rights are unalienable which means that they are granted by God...
Uh-huh.

Your original assertion was that your "free speech rights" were somehow here protected by the U.S. Constitution. You're switching horses in mid-stream because that one was shot down. And - if you'd do some minimal research - you'd find that what constitutes legally protected freedom of expression does indeed vary from nation to nation.

And you still can't say whatever you like in a private accomodation...pretty much anywhere.
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Old May 9 2008, 09:02 PM   #45
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Re: 'Star Wars' Fan Abrams On Making New 'Star Trek'

Alright, let's get back on topic. The last time it strayed this far off topic, it was ok'd by the OP, which was T'bonz. In this case, it isn't.

Free speech debates can be discussed in miscellaneous or TNZ
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