(UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer

[HappyDayRiot]

And that defence will be facing Barcelona on Wednesday - oh dear... Cracking goal I like that one a lot.

Macheda's goal today was excellent as well. Fascinating weekend of Premier League at both ends... unless you're from the north-east that is. Boro look doomed now, while Blackburn and Stoke are probably safe.

[Roger Wilco]

Iasius wrote:

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I just love this goal (Wolfsburg vs Bayern): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUvzatmuEyw



I can't stop replaying this one.


Edit: The video has been removed. It was the goal by grafite that made it 5-1 in the 77nd minute.

here's a working link

but the 5:1 is funny only as long as you don't realise that Wolfsburg could actually win this championship...

[Tomalak]

Hermiod wrote:

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Personally, I just base who I want to see go down on how they behaved against us in our games against them.

When you put it like that, they can all go down as far as I care. Except Portsmouth - after the way 'Arry fucked them off to join Spurs, leaving them their fate under the renowned intellectual heavyweight Tony Adams, they deserve to stay up.

West Brom - Played good attacking football against us in both games and gave us a run for our money. Barely any bookings either. This may be unrealistic, but I hope they stay up or, at least, they don't sack Tony Mobray if they go down.

You're only saying that because they play kamikaze football. Wenger's been moaning for years about physical teams not playing fair and letting his teams play them off the park, but the fact is that he still hasn't got a clue how to handle Hull or Stoke. It's no surprise to see him complimenting Mowbray all the time. I don't like the Bolton-style teams either, but you have to learn to deal with them in football.

In a way, I have less respect for Mowbray than for the likes of Allardyce, Brown, Megson and Pulis. If you don't have the skill, you haven't got a chance in the premier league playing the way West Brom do. It was obvious from day one (okay, day two) that Mowbray's "principles" were going to get them relegated, and I felt that was disrespectful to the fans. At least make an effort at giving the team a bit of bite and strength. They are lightweight throughout the team, which means they get rolled over every week because they are outplayed by the better sides, and outfought by the dross.

Middlesbrough - I know Gareth Southgate used to be a center half but seriously, come out of your box occasionally Boro!

It's perhaps more shocking that they can't even defend their box anymore. They started the season as a decent, but unlucky team. They were obviously lacking goals, but were still well set-up, and had a good defence. Now they are just abysmal, and Southgate's shown no signs of turning it around.

Sunderland - I'm not sure how much longer the team of Championship players Roy Keane has strung together and Ricky Spragia has inherited can hold out.

It's incredible what Keane did to that club. The sheer number of signings he made who were utterly incapable of making an impact was staggering. I can't believe Quinn gave him so much support, given that he outspent most other clubs, but still left them relegation candidates. No wonder he's now taking a long, hard look at himself away from football.

Roger Wilco wrote:

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here's a working link

but the 5:1 is funny only as long as you don't realise that Wolfsburg could actually win this championship...

Just how awesome is the Bundesliga? We're all excited because Liverpool are essentially four points behind Manchester United, which means we have a "title race". There are five or six teams that can still claim the crown in Germany.

[Hermiod]

Tomalak wrote:

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You're only saying that because they play kamikaze football. Wenger's been moaning for years about physical teams not playing fair and letting his teams play them off the park, but the fact is that he still hasn't got a clue how to handle Hull or Stoke. It's no surprise to see him complimenting Mowbray all the time. I don't like the Bolton-style teams either, but you have to learn to deal with them in football.

In a way, I have less respect for Mowbray than for the likes of Allardyce, Brown, Megson and Pulis. If you don't have the skill, you haven't got a chance in the premier league playing the way West Brom do. It was obvious from day one (okay, day two) that Mowbray's "principles" were going to get them relegated, and I felt that was disrespectful to the fans. At least make an effort at giving the team a bit of bite and strength. They are lightweight throughout the team, which means they get rolled over every week because they are outplayed by the better sides, and outfought by the dross.

Hiding in your own box and never trying to win is much more disrespectful. Asking people to pay £40 or more to watch their team "defend valiantly" is disrespectful, and is why you see so many empty seats at Premier League games.

It's funny you should mention "day one", because on day one West Brom came to us and gave us a good game. We only won 1-0 and they had plenty of chances to equalise.

I don't mind seeing teams playing a tough and physically game. Even Arsenal do that sometimes - Adebayor, Bendtner, Diaby and co aren't afraid to get stuck in - even Walcott's putting in tackles these days. How Blackburn, Hull and Stoke have played against us however crosses a line. There is a line between tough tackles and blatant thuggery. We lost three players in our away game against Stoke - and then there's El Hadji Diouf's "tackle" on Almunia.

If they're not fouling they're finding other ways to cheat. Stoke's throw-ins that the referee inexplicably allows them to take minutes to set up and eventually take. Hull's time wasting (and then the blatant lies, false accusations and outright slander that comes when you question it) and Blackburn's diving around like idiots - yes, I'm talking about you, Mr. Pedersen.

It's not just those three, I sat and watched Newcastle's Steven Taylor throwing his elbow at Andrei Arshavin and get away with it. We did get a bit of karma out of that, though - he got injured trying another one of his hacked challenges and had to leave the pitch. We exploited the gap and scored.

[Tomalak]

Hermiod wrote:

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Hiding in your own box and never trying to win is much more disrespectful. Asking people to pay £40 or more to watch their team "defend valiantly" is disrespectful, and is why you see so many empty seats at Premier League games.

Yet West Brom fans are asked to pay £40 to watch their team capitulate meekly every week. Ultimately Hull and Stoke look likely to survive, so I doubt their fans will care much how they achieved it. Wimbledon long-balled their way to the FA Cup, and Bolton were top six finishers in more recent years.

It's funny you should mention "day one", because on day one West Brom came to us and gave us a good game. We only won 1-0 and they had plenty of chances to equalise.

That's why I said, "okay, day two".

How Blackburn, Hull and Stoke have played against us however crosses a line. There is a line between tough tackles and blatant thuggery. We lost three players in our away game against Stoke - and then there's El Hadji Diouf's "tackle" on Almunia.

If they're not fouling they're finding other ways to cheat. Stoke's throw-ins that the referee inexplicably allows them to take minutes to set up and eventually take. Hull's time wasting (and then the blatant lies, false accusations and outright slander that comes when you question it) and Blackburn's diving around like idiots - yes, I'm talking about you, Mr. Pedersen.

I agree, blatant cheating and fouling should be punished. Referees are inconsistent, and they allow a lot of this to go on. The infamous "Delap throw" is a very successful tactic for Stoke, it seems to be allowed, so why shouldn't they use it? If it's illegal, referees need to stop it.

I'm very wary when it comes to rules dictating how teams should be allowed to play football. This thing Wenger's come out with about rewarding goal difference with more points is a case in point. For these teams, survival is the most important thing. Mowbray decided it wasn't, and West Brom are likely to remain the eternal yo-yo club.

I'm not going to complain when teams don't play into our hands. We dropped four points against Stoke because we couldn't get past them. They didn't do anything untoward, we weren't good enough, and those two points they might not have expected to get against Liverpool could prove crucial. It's the same with Hull - we're still to play them at the KC, but we could only draw at Anfield. West Brom on the other hand, came to Anfield with a high defence, no strength in midfield, and were comfortably trashed. Robbie Keane of all people scored two.

[Roger Wilco]

Hermiod wrote:

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Hiding in your own box and never trying to win is much more disrespectful. Asking people to pay £40 or more to watch their team "defend valiantly" is disrespectful, and is why you see so many empty seats at Premier League games.

I think it's rather arrogant of you, as a supporter of one of the richest and strongest clubs in the league, to make such judgements about the supporters of clubs who are struggling to merely stay in the league with much less money.

Some clubs' fans might enjoy seeing their team go down with flying colours, but others are probably looking for something different - namely results. And in my opinion it's just as legitimate - maybe even moreso for "inferior" clubs - to play defensive, destructive tactics in matches where they just can't compete with the opposing team on a technical level, like Arsenal. It is smart tactics to adapt your game to the way your opponent plays.

That's probably frustrating to watch sometimes, but who are you to tell other clubs they should play harakiri just because you're pissed off that Arsenal can't play their usual game against these teams?

[Hermiod]

I'll take you up on two issues here.

First, Arsenal are not "rich". My club is run as a sensible business. Despite some of our shares being owned by billionaires, we do not get one penny from our owners either. We are routinely outspent by other clubs outside of the top four. We survive by bringing in the best young players we can find and turning them in to world class players. Arsenal built a new stadium to support this, at the club's own expense.

Second, the reason we have so many fans is because the club markets itself well and we play entertaining football that people want to pay to see. This is why our stadium sells out every week. We often even fill our stadium for Carling Cup games where the fans know they won't be seeing our strongest line-up.

Football exists for the purposes of entertainment. If you do not entertain the fans then you are ripping them off. Defensive football is one thing, outright dirty football is another, you are not just ripping your own fans off but you are ripping off the entire Premier League when top players are unable to play because they're injured.

[Roger Wilco]

Hermiod wrote:

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First, Arsenal are not "rich". My club is run as a sensible business. Despite some of our shares being owned by billionaires, we do not get one penny from our owners either. We are routinely outspent by other clubs outside of the top four. We survive by bringing in the best young players we can find and turning them in to world class players. Arsenal built a new stadium to support this, at the club's own expense.

All true, but Arsenal still has a lot more money available than all but a select few other clubs worldwide.

According to the Deloitte "Football Money League" report 2009 (this is about the 2007/08 season):

Second, the reason we have so many fans is because the club markets itself well and we play entertaining football that people want to pay to see. This is why our stadium sells out every week. We often even fill our stadium for Carling Cup games where the fans know they won't be seeing our strongest line-up.

Football exists for the purposes of entertainment. If you do not entertain the fans then you are ripping them off. Defensive football is one thing, outright dirty football is another, you are not just ripping your own fans off but you are ripping off the entire Premier League when top players are unable to play because they're injured.

People take entertainment out of football in many different ways, even ways that are counter-intuitive to what a reasonable person would normally describe as "entertainment". I can't tell you how many games I've watched where I knew beforehand that it would be a miserable experience, because my club is playing shit, the stadium is empty, it's freezing cold outside and we have little chance of winning, and I went anyway. And that's even though I'm a supporter of a club that's routinely one of the dominating teams in our league anyway. Fans of other clubs certainly take some joy just from beating clubs like mine, or at least taking a point away.

Sure, everyone would rather see their team playing a flashy style and all that. But given the choice between doing that and getting relegated or playing ugly and winning - how do you think most fans would choose?

I mean seriously, in what world are you living? Do you seriously believe the fans of a club like Stoke enjoy seeing a player like Chr. Ronaldo make their players look like fools? Of course not, they'd rather see one of their guys break Ronaldo's legs. Football is not a children's birthday party.

[Jax]

Let me put it this way, FUCK playing pretty football I want results because thats how you win and win enough and the decent style of football with come along too. No matter how good your team plays £40 is a rip off no matter what...tickets should be much lower, especially now.

[Hermiod]

Roger Wilco wrote:

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All true, but Arsenal still has a lot more money available than all but a select few other clubs worldwide.

That graph does not show where it all goes. That shows income, not bank balance. Arsenal have a huge loan to pay off and a property portfolio that is shrinking in value.

I mean seriously, in what world are you living? Do you seriously believe the fans of a club like Stoke enjoy seeing a player like Chr. Ronaldo make their players look like fools? Of course not, they'd rather see one of their guys break Ronaldo's legs. Football is not a children's birthday party.

I'm living in a world where I pay money to watch football.

[TheArsenal]

Goal of the year candidate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9gtIKLPjno

[HappyDayRiot]

^ It's been taken down - who was it?

[TheArsenal]

It was Grafite in Wolfsburg's trouncing of Bayern. The Sun has a video of it that won't get taken down. Wait for the slow motion replay to really get a look.

[Roger Wilco]

Interesting results in the Champions League - ok for Arsenal, bad for Manchester, but I was very impressed with both non-English teams. I'd love to see Porto come through even though I strongly dislike that club.

[Tomalak]

United were rubbish, but still nearly won it. There's no margin for error in Portugal next week.

Arsenal should be through. Villarreal just don't seem to have enough goals in them.