RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,159
Posts: 5,434,737
Members: 24,937
Currently online: 664
Newest member: bryanb2014

TrekToday headlines

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 13 2008, 05:09 AM   #1
James Wright
Commodore
 
James Wright's Avatar
 
Location: Church Hill, Tennessee
Rank Insignia Pins(Star Trek Movies 2-6)?

Can someone show what the rank pins for the ranks of Commodore & Fleet Captain look like, can these 2 ranks be confused?

JDW
James Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2008, 05:28 AM   #2
EnsignRicky
Commodore
 
EnsignRicky's Avatar
 
Location: Pre-Apocalyptic Earth
Re: Rank Insignia Pins(Star Trek Movies 2-6)?

You can try this site, they have an excellent and extensive collection of insignias, rank pins and a ton of other very cool stuff. You may find what your looking for there; Look under logos.

http://www.lcars-interface.de/
__________________
Use Only As Directed
EnsignRicky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2008, 05:36 AM   #3
Tibbetts
Lieutenant Commander
 
Tibbetts's Avatar
 
Location: United States
View Tibbetts's Twitter Profile
Re: Rank Insignia Pins(Star Trek Movies 2-6)?

Also, you might try Kuro-RPG. He has a section of ranks for the movie era.


-Tibbetts
__________________
“I am a soldier, I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight.” -- General George S. Patton

My Forum | MyBlog
Tibbetts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2008, 06:41 AM   #4
James Wright
Commodore
 
James Wright's Avatar
 
Location: Church Hill, Tennessee
Re: Rank Insignia Pins(Star Trek Movies 2-6)?

I know that there was an offical or canom rank pin made for the rank of Commodore, was the rank pin insignia of Fleet Captain canon?

JDW
James Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2008, 07:21 AM   #5
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Rank Insignia Pins(Star Trek Movies 2-6)?

Heck, even the rank of Fleet Captain isn't canon.

Bob Fletcher never designed a pin to go between Captain and Commodore. (He also originally forgot to design a pin to go between Lieutenant and Commander, but rectified that for the later movies, leading to some confusion as fans had designed a version of Lieutenant Commander on their own.) In fact, no rank marker system in onscreen Star Trek has featured a marker for a rank between Captain and Commodore.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2008, 03:34 PM   #6
137th Gebirg
Rear Admiral
 
137th Gebirg's Avatar
 
Location: Who is John Galt?
Re: Rank Insignia Pins(Star Trek Movies 2-6)?

Timo wrote: View Post
Heck, even the rank of Fleet Captain isn't canon.
Not entirely correct. Both Garth of Izar and Christopher Pike were awarded the rank of Fleet Captain, but neither wore a Starfleet uniform that would show what that rank looked like. Unofficially, the braid for Fleet Captain in TOS was three solid stripes, IIRC.
__________________
Gebirgswick - Ind, Tra, Sec & Env.

Last edited by 137th Gebirg; March 13 2008 at 03:42 PM.
137th Gebirg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2008, 07:32 PM   #7
James Wright
Commodore
 
James Wright's Avatar
 
Location: Church Hill, Tennessee
Re: Rank Insignia Pins(Star Trek Movies 2-6)?

I can find most of the movie rank pins on ebay, the only one I can't find is the pin that represents the rank of Commodore, does anybody have one just to show?

JDW
James Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2008, 08:10 PM   #8
137th Gebirg
Rear Admiral
 
137th Gebirg's Avatar
 
Location: Who is John Galt?
Re: Rank Insignia Pins(Star Trek Movies 2-6)?

http://www.roddenberry.com/?action=s...come&cid=11421

Column 2, Row 2
__________________
Gebirgswick - Ind, Tra, Sec & Env.
137th Gebirg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2008, 11:24 PM   #9
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Rank Insignia Pins(Star Trek Movies 2-6)?

Both Garth of Izar and Christopher Pike were awarded the rank of Fleet Captain
Yet Garth of Izar was only ever addressed as "captain" or "starship fleet captain", never as "fleet captain". And dramatically, this "starship fleet captain" in each case basically meant "captain like Kirk", "captain from the starship fleet" - it wasn't an honorific, it was a demand for Garth to live up to the reputation of captains from the starship fleet.

And there is no particular reason to think that Pike's rank would have differed from Kirk's, other than Mendez calling it "fleet captain" rather than plain "captain". Could be short for "starship fleet captain" again, really.

Since no Trek rank system from any era has featured a pin for a rank that would correspond to this putative Fleet Captain (indeed, the TNG era system not only omits such a rank, but also seems to omit Commodore!), I say we should take any excuse for interpreting the TOS terminology as not indicating the existence of such a rank. And I frankly believe the writers of "Whom Gods Destroy" never intended for such a rank to exist. Although the writers of "The Menagerie" might have...

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2008, 11:32 PM   #10
EliyahuQeoni
Commodore
 
EliyahuQeoni's Avatar
 
Location: Redmond, Oregon, United States of America, North America, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way, Universe
View EliyahuQeoni's Twitter Profile
Re: Rank Insignia Pins(Star Trek Movies 2-6)?

^^
Except that Kirk mentions having been there when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain. And it would seem natural for a Fleet Captain to be referred to simply as "Captain" much the same way a Rear-Admiral is addressed as "Admiral."
__________________
"Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a Star Trek fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'." - Leonard Nimoy
EliyahuQeoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2008, 11:42 PM   #11
George Steinbrenner
Fleet Admiral
 
George Steinbrenner's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
View George Steinbrenner's Twitter Profile
Re: Rank Insignia Pins(Star Trek Movies 2-6)?

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
^^
Except that Kirk mentions having been there when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain. And it would seem natural for a Fleet Captain to be referred to simply as "Captain" much the same way a Rear-Admiral is addressed as "Admiral."
I always assumed that Fleet Captain and Commodore were in fact the same rank. I don't really see any reason not to.

I mean, in a modern spacegoing fleet such as this one, there's really no reason to have more ranks than absolutely necessary; in fact, with technology being what it is, and offering easy means for personnel to communicate and issue orders instantly, there would probably be *fewer* ranks, not more.

As for onscreen rank insignia pins: None were ever used for either rank. The closest we got was the TOS uniforms, which used a single thick stripe (with stylized borders) for a Commodore. (No Fleet Captain was ever seen in uniform in TOS.)
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
George Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2008, 01:13 AM   #12
James Wright
Commodore
 
James Wright's Avatar
 
Location: Church Hill, Tennessee
Re: Rank Insignia Pins(Star Trek Movies 2-6)?

I guess the Commodore rank pin is pretty rare since ebay hasn't shown one for sale since I've been looking at these pins for some time!?
Some sellers on ebay say that the rank pin for Fleet Captain is the rank pin for Commodore.

JDW
James Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2008, 04:11 AM   #13
James Wright
Commodore
 
James Wright's Avatar
 
Location: Church Hill, Tennessee
Re: Rank Insignia Pins(Star Trek Movies 2-6)?

Why were there 2 rank pins on the jackets in movies 2 thru 6?

JDW
James Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2008, 10:02 AM   #14
Intelligence
Rear Admiral
 
Intelligence's Avatar
 
Location: Bremen, Germany, Europe
Re: Rank Insignia Pins(Star Trek Movies 2-6)?

JDW wrote: View Post
Why were there 2 rank pins on the jackets in movies 2 thru 6?

JDW
Because having the rank insignia only on the sleeve makes it harder for other crewpeople to recognise the other's rank. However most stupidly all enlisted crew just has the mark on the sleeve ...

I further recommend you have a look at the 2278-2350 section at http://www.st-spike.org/
__________________
Andorian's office, with new section all about Kzinti!
Intelligence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2008, 10:41 AM   #15
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Rank Insignia Pins(Star Trek Movies 2-6)?

Except that Kirk mentions having been there when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain.
Which still doesn't mean this should be different from Captain Kirk's rank. Because as you say,

Except that Kirk mentions having been there when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain. And it would seem natural for a Fleet Captain to be referred to simply as "Captain" much the same way a Rear-Admiral is addressed as "Admiral."
That is, all the starship commanders with |:| on their sleeve, >(|||)< on their shoulder, or oooo on their collar could have held the rank that can be referred to as Fleet Captain, but usually is said to be Captain for short.

After all, the word "captain" alone is a source for confusion, since it can refer to civilian commanders of ships, and to Starfleet personnel of varying ranks in command of a ship. In the worst case, it also refers to a fairly low-ranking officer in whatever organization Colonel West served.

Starfleet might thus have decided to refer to its O-6 -ranked people as Fleet Captain for clarity, but of course such nonsense wouldn't take with the rank and file who'd continue to use the shorter, confusing form...

Because having the rank insignia only on the sleeve makes it harder for other crewpeople to recognise the other's rank. However most stupidly all enlisted crew just has the mark on the sleeve ...
And one wonders why the pin is on the officer sleeve in the first place. Collars and shoulder straps and epaulets are nearly at eye level and relatively easy to see, so a small insignia is excusable there, whether it be the striped epaulet of TMP, the pins of ST2-6, or the pips of TNG. But sleeves are at constant motion, far away from the eyes, often obstructed by other body parts or by items held. An all-around identifier like cuff braid is warranted there, not a tiny pin on one side.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:06 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.