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Old July 2 2011, 09:18 PM   #421
Vektor
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Okay, for a while now I've been trying to think of a way to handle cargo storage on board Polaris. Aridas' original design had it located somewhere in the saucer, outside the regularly inhabited areas of the main fuselage, which makes sense. I figure you want to be able to access it in flight, so something like actual cargo bays rather than isolated cargo modules seems preferable, or maybe some combination of the two.

Here is my first pass at what the cargo bays might look like:




The idea here is that the doors tilt inward slightly and then retract toward the outer edge of the saucer. The interior of each bay is partitioned in a way that aligns with the decks in the main fuselage. This allows easier access by the crew and also allows for acceleration forces and normal gravity when the ship is landed. These partitions can be rearranged to accommodate different types of cargo.

I'm very much interested in opinions and suggestions on this as I have yet to have that "Aha!" flash of inspiration that tells me exactly how it should be done on this ship. I rather like this way this looks and it ties back to some of the radial detailing I wanted to include on this part of the ship a while back, but I am by no means married to it.

You may notice I have also redone the name and registry to make it a bit more subtle and less Trek-like. I'm interested in feedback on that as well.
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Old July 2 2011, 09:42 PM   #422
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

I love the orange.
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Old July 2 2011, 10:17 PM   #423
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Thanks, Psion...the stuff I tried to do was workmanlike in some ways. It never was really inspired, and I just don't have the eye to design things like this.

I like the cargo bays a lot, and I like the scaled-down lettering and registry - putting it on the fuselage seems right. Although I originally contributed the layout for that hull numbering, I think now that we should drop the "D" - the homage is clear enough, and I think that's a step too far toward precious.
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Old July 2 2011, 10:47 PM   #424
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Vektor, I'm probably misunderstanding you, but from your description don't bays 2 and 4 overlap with bays 1 and 5 respectively if you have them arranged so they line up with decks in the main fuselage? I understand I'm just looking at doors here, but I don't quite get how the spaces beyond can correspond with decks. Can you whip up a simple sketch so dummies like me can better visualize it?

Mind you, I think it's gorgeous work, but I'm worried that it's too function-following-form, if you know what I mean.

Maybe if the cargo bay was just a big open space and cargo containers were loaded into it like bullets in an ammo cartridge from the front?
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Old July 3 2011, 12:03 AM   #425
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Is she still a tail-lander?

What equipment does she have to get stuff to and fro the ground in non-spaceport conditions?
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Old July 3 2011, 06:19 AM   #426
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

if "up" is towards the nose, why is the name and registry printed sideways?
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Old July 3 2011, 07:46 AM   #427
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

largo wrote: View Post
if "up" is towards the nose, why is the name and registry printed sideways?
"Up" only applies to the interior.
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Old July 3 2011, 08:14 AM   #428
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

From a production standpoitn I like small registry numbers and bilaterally symmetrical ships because it makes it easier to "flop" a shot left right when you need to have the ship going the opposite direction.
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Old July 3 2011, 06:10 PM   #429
Vektor
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Dennis wrote: View Post
I'd also love to see a plastic model of it myself. To be clear, any arrangements, income etc. from that kind of thing are for Vektor and aridas to work out between them - what I've asked for Polaris is only the right to use the ship in the movie and in any promotional and associated materials for it.
I'm certainly not opposed to the idea of a physical model. It's not a huge step from 3D model to physical model these days so it shouldn't be that hard to do. One thing at a time, though.

Psion wrote: View Post
Vektor, I'm probably misunderstanding you, but from your description don't bays 2 and 4 overlap with bays 1 and 5 respectively if you have them arranged so they line up with decks in the main fuselage? I understand I'm just looking at doors here, but I don't quite get how the spaces beyond can correspond with decks. Can you whip up a simple sketch so dummies like me can better visualize it?

Mind you, I think it's gorgeous work, but I'm worried that it's too function-following-form, if you know what I mean.
I modified the paintover to show a couple of the doors in the open position and will post it shortly. It should give everyone a better idea of what I had in mind for the interior of the bays.

However, the more I think about it the more I think you're right about function following form. That was my main concern at the outset and I think I'm probably going to wind up doing something altogether different. See my next post for further discussion on that.

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
Is she still a tail-lander?

What equipment does she have to get stuff to and from the ground in non-spaceport conditions?
Good question. I have a couple of vague ideas about cargo lifts that run through the tail fins just outboard of the launch engines, but I still have to work out more of the details.

Keep in mind that this ship isn't a freighter and landing is not something it does very often, so cargo loading and unloading on the ground is probably not a major design consideration, but there should probably be some facility for allowing that to happen in a pinch.

I'll figure something out.

largo wrote: View Post
if "up" is towards the nose, why is the name and registry printed sideways?
Because it flies through space nose-first regardless of the deck orientation. The name and registry is meant to be read by other ships, not the people inside. Of course, in three-dimensional space, who knows what the relative orientation of two passing ships would be, Star Trek's "we're all right-side-up all the time" approach notwithstanding.
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Old July 3 2011, 06:20 PM   #430
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Here's what the ring of cargo bays looks like with a couple of doors slid open to reveal the decks inside.



This seemed like a good idea at the time, but there are some obvious problems. The doors look cool from the outside but they don't line up well with the internal decks and getting cargo in and out would be problematic. Even if you assume the interior of the bays are laid out more efficiently, the form of the doors just doesn't make much functional sense.

I have another idea I'm going to try, hopefully when I get the time later today, that actually goes back to certain details from some of my earlier design sketches. I think it will make more sense functionally and probably tie in better with both internal and external means of loading and unloading cargo.

Stay tuned.

EDIT - Woops. Just realized I forgot to paint in the hatch rim on bay #5. Oh well.
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Old July 3 2011, 06:59 PM   #431
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Vektor wrote: View Post
largo wrote: View Post
if "up" is towards the nose, why is the name and registry printed sideways?
Because it flies through space nose-first regardless of the deck orientation. The name and registry is meant to be read by other ships, not the people inside. Of course, in three-dimensional space, who knows what the relative orientation of two passing ships would be, Star Trek's "we're all right-side-up all the time" approach notwithstanding.
wouldn't other ships typically be oriented the same way, though? i.e. from another ship flying alongside, the crew would still have to turn their heads? or is the polaris a rare antique without artificial gravity?

and it would be sideways when the ship is planet-side. maybe that makes it easier for drunken crew returning after leave, though?
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Old July 3 2011, 07:41 PM   #432
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Dennis wrote: View Post
I'd also love to see a plastic model of it myself. To be clear, any arrangements, income etc. from that kind of thing are for Vektor and aridas to work out between them - what I've asked for Polaris is only the right to use the ship in the movie and in any promotional and associated materials for it.
If not a plastic model kit, a set of blueprints/deckplans/technical manual would be very interesting, I think.
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Old July 3 2011, 08:07 PM   #433
Vektor
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

In the movie, we only see Polaris flying through space, nose-forward, saucer vertical, with the possible exception of some wild combat maneuvering and maybe an artistically composed shot or two. That is the primary reason why the name and registry are oriented the way they are, so they will be easily readable on-screen.

If you want a technical, in-universe explanation, I personally believe Polaris' deck orientation is mainly to accommodate the fact that, on those rare occasions when it does land, it does so on its tail. Probably there are other ships that do the same, but I'm betting that most ships do not, so the orientation of the name and registry probably conform to the standards of "typical" spacecraft.

As for people being able to read the name when it's on the ground, I point out that no one seems to get contemporary space shuttles confused when they are sitting on the launch pad preparing for take-off, even though their names are sideways.

Lets be honest here. The name and registry are more of a visual formality than anything else, a way to give the ship an added sense of identity from the audience's point of view. In space, with the distances involved and transmitted ID codes and the like, plus the realistic unlikelihood that ships would just happen to be oriented the same way in passing, whether or not the name and registry are right-side-up is mostly irrelevant.
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Old July 3 2011, 08:08 PM   #434
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Does the means by which the artificial gravity is generated necessarily extend beyond the fuselage? Other than the inertial component, that is, and I was under the impression that the most significant aspect of the gravity generation was something other than inertia. Perhaps the saucer could be internally segmented radially anyway.
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Old July 3 2011, 09:38 PM   #435
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

I like the way the smaller hatch doors appear to slides open along one edge rather than down the center. If you go this approach I'd make all the doors work this way rather than sliding on their centerline.
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