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Old April 16 2008, 12:02 AM   #136
Jimmy_C
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

aridas sofia wrote: View Post
Jimmy_C wrote: View Post
Looking good. I like the visual style. I don't like the physics that much, though. What powers the ship and its landers?
The ship would have a small reactor (fusion or perhaps m/am) powering something like Casimir cavities amidships (that create anti-gravitational negative energy) and micro-massive singularity containers (fore and aft) that are hypergravity sources. As I mentioned before, the forward singularity causes the fabric of space ahead of Polaris to contract, while the aft singularity causes the space behind the ship to expand. Polaris would ride a wave inside a warp bubble of flat space. The ship would not be moving within this warp bubble, but rather be "carried along" as the region of warped space moves. The scenario is something like a manufactured wormhole, with the throat being kept open by the ship's antigravity "rings." Instead of a warp bubble, or a wormhole, I call it a "warp tether," intentionally evoking the nautical sense of "warping" as a verb describing a ship's use of a rope to tug itself towards its destination.

As for the lander, my thinking is that since the ship is relatively small (too small for exotic antigravity technology), and needs to be durable and dependable for multiple landings, a simple nuclear rocket might be the best, most powerful "tried and true" technology. Whether there would be room in that lander for an advanced NERVA or some other type of nuclear motor, I haven't worked out. Obviously, if there's not enough room, either the design will be modified, or there will be an assumption that the tech has advanced to the point that it is possible.

Most space on real rockets seems to be devoted to fuel. If the ship is constantly accelerating, that would take a lot of stored energy, right? And the landers seem kinda small to me to have enough potential energy to land and fly back from the surface of the Earth to whatever orbit the ship is on (and how to orbits work for a craft that always accelerates itself?)
The one slice of pure bolognium in this scheme is my idea that one gee acceleration applied over time can charge artificial gravity generators for an equal amount of time via "stored momentum". Something about the relationship between time, gravity and momentum allows this, but in reality, its just the need for artificial gravity in situations like the orbit you mentioned that drives my appetite for the bolognium.

I think I can say that both Dennis and I would like to depict a technology that is not nearly as magical as that depicted in Star Trek, but is advanced enough to permit space opera with some respect for science. So, "maybe" technologies like negative energy and "warp tethers" can share the stage with an old stalwart like the nuclear rocket, and a pure fantasy concept like my gravity bank (which I'd get rid of if I could think of anything better).
Interesting, because you're making a Gravitational Quadrupole, with weird "negative energy" singularities as well as normal singularities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrupole

Your ship might emit gravitational waves, but the negative energy part complicates matters. If it was an electric field, far away then the potential might drop off as r^-4 from the center of the ship (it would be non-zero, though). Of course, you can't have very massive singularities, or the ship would crush itself.

Assuming it is like a pair of electric dipoles lined up with opposite polarity (+q ... -2q ... +q), with a ship length of d, then then if it was an electric field the potential would be from the center (looking at the front or back):

E = 3G(2qd^2)(r^-4)

On the other hand, if you reversed the singularities and negative energy sources, could you get negative potential (and thus maybe work the way you want it too)?

Also, when near a large gravitational body, you might get torque on your ship. Would that mean you can't engage the engines unless you are far enough away from a planet (unless you have enough structural integrity to survive).

Of course, I'm using electric fields to simulate gravitational fields, because I don't understand how to deal with gravitational fields well enough. IANAP yet.
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Old April 16 2008, 02:19 AM   #137
aridas sofia
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Also, when near a large gravitational body, you might get torque on your ship. Would that mean you can't engage the engines unless you are far enough away from a planet (unless you have enough structural integrity to survive).
Definitely. The scenario I envision has the ship dropping out of its warp envelope well away from any steep gravity well. I'd think it would re-enter normal space outside a star system and proceed at one gee -- banking gravity as it goes -- into the system, drawing off this "stored gravity" once it decelerates into orbit.

Thanks for the information about gravitational quadrupoles. The idea of using micromassive singularities for spacetime contraction and expansion has always fascinated me, at least since I first envisioned a science fiction description of an Alcubierre-Van Den Broeck warp drive for another project I was involved with. The difficulties of shielding the ship containing the singularities has been an interesting one to consider, and at one point left me writing of "spinning Podkletnov gravity shields" to deflect gravity waves.

Obviously, this historian is way over his head in the speculative physics department, and can sympathize with the desire expressed by Gene Roddenberry to tell stories "about people, not about science or gadgetry".

Last edited by aridas sofia; April 16 2008 at 02:37 AM.
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Old April 23 2008, 11:08 PM   #138
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Neither DIVX nor the reduced-size FLV format are very kind to this little test shot, but here it is:

http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...istest5avi.flv

I don't think I have the bandwidth to post the larger video at my site right now. I may post some higher-resolution stills later. There's still a lot of modeling and texturing yet to go.
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Old April 23 2008, 11:32 PM   #139
EliyahuQeoni
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Looks good to me!
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Old April 24 2008, 01:23 AM   #140
chancellorjake
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Oh, now that is wonderful! It appears that you've added some details to the ring, as well. It really is a joy to see this ship come together.
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Old June 5 2008, 05:32 PM   #141
BJensen
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Wow! very cool guys.
Made visiting the TrekBBS after a long absence worthwhile
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Old June 5 2008, 07:12 PM   #142
aridas sofia
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Good to hear from you again, Bruce. Thanks for the kind words. Coming from you, they mean a lot.
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Old June 5 2008, 09:15 PM   #143
MauriceNavidad
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Fun thread. I just stumbled across it.

If this were my project, the first thing I'd say about fins/rings/rollbars is "what's it for?" Assign function to it and the form will follow. Right now all the concepts for this detail look false because they feel ornamental rather than functional.
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Old June 5 2008, 09:20 PM   #144
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

BJensen wrote: View Post
Wow! very cool guys.
Made visiting the TrekBBS after a long absence worthwhile
Great to "see" you, Bruce. Thanks for the kind words.
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Old June 5 2008, 10:33 PM   #145
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

A couple of framegrabs - still early stuff:






Last edited by Admiral Buzzkill; June 5 2008 at 10:39 PM.
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Old June 5 2008, 11:39 PM   #146
Ryan Thomas Riddle
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

^This is how I like my science fiction! Great job, Dennis.
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Old June 6 2008, 02:14 AM   #147
USS Kongo
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

I'm also loving this thread very much. Watching the ship go through design changes is great fun.

I really like the ship design as you have it now. A nice mix of retro with present day sensibilities/theories. Plus, the ring gives the ship the feeling that it has a halo--which is sort of a subconscious signal that they're the good guys.

Great job!

Sean
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Old June 6 2008, 11:57 AM   #148
ST-One
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

This is now starting to look very nice.
The added details and greebles really help to bring this model to life.
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Old June 6 2008, 01:02 PM   #149
RoJoHen
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Just saw this for the first time, and I think it's a beauty.

When it's completely finished, can you make an image of it blowing something up? Nobody does any decent blowing shit up pictures anymore.
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Old June 6 2008, 06:17 PM   #150
Starhawk
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Re: Star Ship Polaris

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
Another small update:



After going through the entire thread I think this is my favorite iteration of Polaris. Good work to all involved and I look forward to see where this is all going.

Starhawk
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