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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old June 29 2009, 06:51 AM   #151
Destructor
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

noknowes wrote: View Post
If the originals were destroyed nobody would have anything to compare the restored versions with and hence they would become the defacto masters.
Also, if every copy of DS9 on DVD was destroyed and all we had were the shitty VHS copies people taped from TV, they would become the de facto masters and anyone who complained about their awful quality wouldn't be able to prove it!
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Old June 29 2009, 12:46 PM   #152
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Destructor wrote: View Post
noknowes wrote: View Post
If the originals were destroyed nobody would have anything to compare the restored versions with and hence they would become the defacto masters.
Also, if every copy of DS9 on DVD was destroyed and all we had were the shitty VHS copies people taped from TV, they would become the de facto masters and anyone who complained about their awful quality wouldn't be able to prove it!

It is unlikely that dvd copies would get destroyed due to proliferation.

But you get the essence of the idea that too much detail is bad and would not contribute to any further enjoyment.You don't really want see skin blemished and nose hairs.

PEOPLE GO TO SEE A STORY.

Enjoyment as you may not realize has a plateau level above which it cannot increase.

for example suppose we increased detail by using magic to 3d level.would that makes nemesis any better?
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Old June 29 2009, 02:11 PM   #153
jefferiestubes8
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enjoyment vs. more resolution

noknowes wrote: View Post
Enjoyment as you may not realize has a plateau level above which it cannot increase.
for example suppose we increased detail by using magic to 3d level.would that makes nemesis any better?
Ha Ha. well said.
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Old June 29 2009, 02:38 PM   #154
happydave
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

noknowes wrote: View Post
for example suppose we increased detail by using magic to 3d level.would that makes nemesis any better?
Only if I can waltz into Nemesis and fire some trilithium, tekasite and protomatter into the Romulan Sun thus ending the movie and destroying Romulus... it's not like it wasn't going to be destroyed anyway.
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Old June 29 2009, 07:19 PM   #155
TheGodBen
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

noknowes wrote: View Post
PEOPLE GO TO SEE A STORY.
I agree, but if that's how you feel why were you so insistent earlier that software should be used to upscale the image?
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Old June 29 2009, 08:51 PM   #156
Hober Mallow
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

noknowes wrote: View Post
for example suppose we increased detail by using magic to 3d level.would that makes nemesis any better?
No. It would make it worse.

But really, you're clearly missing the point, as the above quote proves. No one is talking about adding extra detail, through magic or any other means. We're talking about preserving the detail that's already there but you can't see because the transfer isn't good enough. We're talking about getting a transfer as close to the original film quality as possible.

Adding 3D details would be altering the film; we're talking about preserving the film.
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Old June 30 2009, 02:48 AM   #157
Destructor
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

noknowes wrote: View Post
But you get the essence of the idea that too much detail is bad and would not contribute to any further enjoyment.
No, I don't get that idea at all. My post was a parody of your absolutely ridiculous premise that as long as people aren't aware of a better quality version, they will never be able to complain about the quality of what they have. It's like saying that a B+W photocopy of a painting is as good as the original painting. It's madness. If you care one jot about DS9, you should be interested in preserving it for the next generation. But you don't, so I kind of don't understand why you keep coming into this thread to lecture about something that completely goes over your head.
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Old June 30 2009, 10:28 PM   #158
Hober Mallow
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

noknowes wrote: View Post
But you get the essence of the idea that too much detail is bad and would not contribute to any further enjoyment.
I don't, in fact, get this idea even a little. So because we don't want to see the detail of cracked paint on canvas we should throw away the original Mona Lisa and be happier with prints? Your argument makes no sense.
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Old June 30 2009, 10:33 PM   #159
jefferiestubes8
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
We're talking about preserving the detail that's already there but you can't see because the transfer isn't good enough. We're talking about getting a transfer as close to the original film quality as possible.
Seconded.
That is what was accomplished with the TOS-R Blu-ray [the shots without ANY visual effects].
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Old June 30 2009, 10:57 PM   #160
Hober Mallow
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
Seconded.
That is what was accomplished with the TOS-R Blu-ray [the shots without ANY visual effects].
Let me just say that I understand the argument that TNG, DS9, and VOY were edited into complete form on videotape, ergo those are the original versions. I understand that argument. With TOS, of course, the original completed, edited episodes existed in film form, so they could do HD transfers of the original versions. To preserve the original TNG and DS9 film, they'll have to essentially make new versions of the episodes. I get that that makes some people uncomfortable. My view is that we should preserve the film regardless, make those new edits, and as long as both original SD version and remastered HD version are available, everyone will be happy. But again, I understand the other side's argument that the SD edits on video are the original versions.

But the argument that too much detail is bad? W... T... F?
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Old July 1 2009, 02:02 AM   #161
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Really, there's no argument here. We have to preserve the film and remaster it. The REAL question isn't whether it must be done, but how. i.e. How close to the originals do we stick? Especially in regards to the battle scenes in early TNG/DS9, which look especially slow and dated compared to today. Do we make them just as slow but with CGI? Or do we go back and take all the optical elements that were filmed and recomposite them in HD? Would they even be good enough quality to do so?

And of course then there's the issue of poor use of stock footage. Do we preserve that or no?
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Old July 1 2009, 02:35 AM   #162
SoM
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Captain Fine wrote: View Post
And of course then there's the issue of poor use of stock footage. Do we preserve that or no?
Well, the thing about THAT is that it was originally done because of budgetary limitations.

And there's no reason to believe that any remastering won't suffer from budgetary limitations of its' own.

That's probably a bigger bugaboo in replacing all the stock footage with footage unique to each scene than any creative reason to keep it.
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Old August 6 2009, 03:53 PM   #163
Cap.T
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

According to this press release: http://trekmovie.com/2009/08/05/full...o-blu-ray-set/ the TOS Season 2 Blu-Ray-Set is going to contain the DS9-Episode "Trials And Tribble-ations" in HD. No information yet if it's going to be just an upconverted version or if they actually redid everything.
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Old August 6 2009, 06:31 PM   #164
MvRojo
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

I really don't mind if they go all out and up the speed of TNG and DS9 battle scenes as long as they do what they did with the TOS BDs and allow you to switch back and forth if you want to.

Although there are some ship sequences that are good as is, like "Shattered Mirror" and "Sacrifice of Angels"
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Old August 7 2009, 01:34 AM   #165
TeutonicNights
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Re: DS9 should get Remastered

Replacing stock shots with new ones could do wonders.
Especially in the early seasons we got a lot of those, and a lack of starships made the station often look a bit isolated.
I could see them doing great stuff with really basic things like runabout take-offs, the wormhole or docking animations.
In some cases, they could really do cool new stuff. Like showing a "naboo" shot of a bajoran street instead of the standard Bajor matte shot.

DS9 remastered would have HUGE potential. An approach like TOSR would not do it justice.
Imagine the Earth shots with the tram train in "Homefront" replaced by a future Paris flyover!
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