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Old May 29 2009, 03:00 PM   #1006
Vance
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

It really is easier, I think, to just say "Hollywood flipped the stations with the lift for dramatic purposes" ... since that actually is exactly what they did.
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Old May 29 2009, 03:14 PM   #1007
Birdog
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Vance wrote: View Post
It really is easier, I think, to just say "Hollywood flipped the stations with the lift for dramatic purposes" ... since that actually is exactly what they did.
I agree with that. Now the question becomes: When drawing plans do we fix it per MJ's intent, or do we use FJ's workable but cumbersome solution?
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Old May 29 2009, 03:19 PM   #1008
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

birdog wrote: View Post
Vance wrote: View Post
It really is easier, I think, to just say "Hollywood flipped the stations with the lift for dramatic purposes" ... since that actually is exactly what they did.
I agree with that. Now the question becomes: When drawing plans do we fix it per MJ's intent, or do we use FJ's workable but cumbersome solution?
That's the question, isn't it? If you want to follow MJ's intent, you put the bridge straight on, with the lift right behind the captain's chair. If you want to follow what's on screen, you need to rotate the bridge per FJ. The other option, which is what was eventually done in TMP and forward, is simply 'double up' the lifts on the external of the model (the mouse ears), allow a straight bridge with the off-center lifts.

Any of three options has to make some allowances, since the bridge/lift issue is clearly a disconnect between the two on-screen elements. (One of a few, really, but easily the most obvious).
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Old May 29 2009, 03:25 PM   #1009
Birdog
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Vance wrote: View Post
birdog wrote: View Post
Vance wrote: View Post
It really is easier, I think, to just say "Hollywood flipped the stations with the lift for dramatic purposes" ... since that actually is exactly what they did.
I agree with that. Now the question becomes: When drawing plans do we fix it per MJ's intent, or do we use FJ's workable but cumbersome solution?
That's the question, isn't it? If you want to follow MJ's intent, you put the bridge straight on, with the lift right behind the captain's chair. If you want to follow what's on screen, you need to rotate the bridge per FJ. The other option, which is what was eventually done in TMP and forward, is simply 'double up' the lifts on the external of the model (the mouse ears), allow a straight bridge with the off-center lifts.

Any of three options has to make some allowances, since the bridge/lift issue is clearly a disconnect between the two on-screen elements. (One of a few, really, but easily the most obvious).
I prefer MJ's intent but I also like the TMP solution as well but you do lose some bridge real estate with the second lift. I think it makes more sense from an operational standpoint to have communications at the port quarter than to have it dead aft.
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Old May 29 2009, 03:31 PM   #1010
Vance
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

birdog wrote: View Post
I prefer MJ's intent but I also like the TMP solution as well but you do lose some bridge real estate with the second lift. I think it makes more sense from an operational standpoint to have communications at the port quarter than to have it dead aft.
You could keep Uhura where she is. It's one of Scotty's terminals (often considered 'spare' anyway) that'll switch over by neccessity. I really don't think it would alter the 'familiar' functions of the bridge that much, when you think about it.
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Old May 29 2009, 03:34 PM   #1011
Birdog
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Vance wrote: View Post
birdog wrote: View Post
I prefer MJ's intent but I also like the TMP solution as well but you do lose some bridge real estate with the second lift. I think it makes more sense from an operational standpoint to have communications at the port quarter than to have it dead aft.
You could keep Uhura where she is. It's one of Scotty's terminals (often considered 'spare' anyway) that'll switch over by neccessity. I really don't think it would alter the 'familiar' functions of the bridge that much, when you think about it.
I didn't explain it well. I had two thoughts collide. On the TOS bridge, comms is aft and the lift is port quarter so if you move the lift aft then you have to move comms to port. I am using the FJ tech manual as my guide at the current moment.
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Old May 29 2009, 07:23 PM   #1012
Vance
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

birdog wrote: View Post
I didn't explain it well. I had two thoughts collide. On the TOS bridge, comms is aft and the lift is port quarter so if you move the lift aft then you have to move comms to port. I am using the FJ tech manual as my guide at the current moment.
Well, there's a small amount of sliding involved, but less than you're fretting I think. Uhura and Spock shift one station counter-clockwise from top. Scotty is now just port behind Kirk when he shows up topside. We have a station or two that's relatively unused in the series that now get used on the starboard side, but that's pretty much it.
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Old May 29 2009, 09:02 PM   #1013
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Personally, I'd rather just move the nub on the outside, making the exterior asymmetric, and leave the bridge alone to face forward. But that's only if I were in charge...
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Old May 29 2009, 09:13 PM   #1014
Tallguy
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

B.J. wrote: View Post
Personally, I'd rather just move the nub on the outside, making the exterior asymmetric, and leave the bridge alone to face forward. But that's only if I were in charge...
I think my credentials as a TOS purist are sound, and I'd MUCH rather seen the exterior changed rather than the interior. I've made a bridge with a centered turbolift. It looks very flat. There's a real good reason why they moved it and kept it moved for every iteration of the Enterprise.

But that's a little off the mark for Shaw's project, isn't it?
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Old June 1 2009, 04:37 AM   #1015
Terror Grin
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I'm never understood the hubbub about the offline bridge. I mean the interiors of ships are often asymmetrical across the centerline.
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Old June 1 2009, 05:44 AM   #1016
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

birdog wrote: View Post
Vance wrote: View Post
It really is easier, I think, to just say "Hollywood flipped the stations with the lift for dramatic purposes" ... since that actually is exactly what they did.
I agree with that. Now the question becomes: When drawing plans do we fix it per MJ's intent, or do we use FJ's workable but cumbersome solution?
This is what I don't get... at all. There is nothing whatsoever "cumbersome" about having the bridge face in a direction other than straight-ahead. (Well, not unless you make the ludicrous assumption that the main viewer is a window... sigh.)

There is absolutely no reason that the bridge couldn't face towards the aft of the ship, or direction to one side. There's nothing whatsoever regarding the operation of this ship that requires you to be facing in the direction of travel. The only two reasons for it to face straight ahead would be:

  1. A need for direct, visual "line of sight" straight ahead. Not an issue when you have a viewscreen rather than a big @#$* plate of glass.
  2. A need to be able to relate physical sense of inertia to direction of travel. Not an issue for a ship that has an "inertia compensation field."

My personal take on this is that the bridge is made up of a series of consoles which can be arranged in whatever configuration you like. You could, in theory, put the main viewscreen complex (including the two status-monitor panels flanking it) immediately next to the lift entrance... and I suspect that a few captains might prefer things like that!

I'd guess that under April, the Enterprise had the "original intent" arrangement, but that at some point, one of the commanding officers got sick of having people walk into his bridge DIRECTLY BEHIND HIM... giving him that creepy "someone sneaking up on me" feeling. So, they unbolted the consoles in a dockyard at some point and shuffled them around to let the captain look over his shoulder at the entrance.

Not a TRIVIAL change... you'd have to shut down operations on the bridge for a day or two, minimum, in order to do it... but not all that complicated, is it? Especially if you think of each station as simply a computer terminal which is tied into the main computer (which I treat as starting directly below the bridge on deck 2).

Again... the main viewscreen isn't a window, it's a computer monitor. It can sit wherever it's most convenient, and there is zero logical justification for saying "that has to be on the centerline of the ship."
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Old June 1 2009, 06:13 AM   #1017
B.J.
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I know there's no logical reason for it needing to face forward, but personally, it would just bug me knowing that I'm not boldly going "forward".
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Old June 1 2009, 08:51 AM   #1018
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I know I haven't addressed this that much, mainly because it seemed like more of an issue that would have come up when I do the redrawing of the Jefferies set plans for the bridge. Not surprisingly, my take isn't all that different from Cary's on this... including the customizable bridge arrangement (which I think could have been used with nice effect in TOS).

I would say that the only major difference between Cary's take on this and mine is the lower deck and command module. Cary's solution (using solid steps) is one that I might have taken had I given myself a little more freedom in this area, but I realized that it might be helpful to have the command module movable (and the stairs fold out of the way for that). While we never see the module itself move, there are times when something other than the viewscreen appears directly in front of those stations (or the viewscreen is off center from them if in that general direction).

Small difference, but that is why I'll be sticking with the non-solid steps (even if the solid ones really make more sense).
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Old June 2 2009, 04:09 AM   #1019
CuttingEdge100
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

IMHO, I'd just turn the bridge straight, and put two turbolifts in to even it out. But Shaw isn't into to that sort of thing...

With that said, it would be best to have the bridge on an angle to make it fit
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Old June 2 2009, 07:43 AM   #1020
Maurice
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Seriosuly, all this fuss because the three people con the command module face a few degrees of center. The rest of the bridge crew faces all kinds of directions. It matters not one iota.
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