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Old April 23 2009, 01:31 AM   #991
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

BrookeStephen wrote: View Post
Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
I just wish I could do that with my plans.
OMG
You goofy guy - I've been volunteering to help anyone who wants to do that - in VRML - and no one takes advantage! LOL
Well, most of the primary hull is still unfinished, but if you wanna take a crack at it...
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Old April 23 2009, 06:45 PM   #992
CuttingEdge100
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Remember that Elite-Force Dreadnought Mod?

Imagine if you could take the blueprints you ultimately will cook up and make an Elite-Force mod out of it?

That would be pretty amazing
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Old April 23 2009, 10:33 PM   #993
TowerPower
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Shaw wrote: View Post
I thought I had posted something like this, but as it turned out what I had posted was pretty small and mixed in with a lot of my illustrations (though the reference scale was there to work from)... so here is a slightly larger version of some of the raw set plans all to scale with each other on a 10 foot by 10 foot grid.


This is obviously not the final diagrams I'm working on, which will be cleaner and easier to work with... sorta looking like this.


As stated from day one, the sizes of the sets are locked to their original sizes (the sizes that we see on screen), though some angles might change depending on how far out from the center a room is placed (and I'll try to provide a variety for some rooms when I redraw them). The goal for me has been to see if the sets will fit without alteration into the Enterprise... basically to see just how far Jefferies thought all of this through (and that has never changed).

These are basically what I was working from for all of my sketches (even the first sketch) when attempting to see how things might fit together, though DS9Sega's Forward Phaser Control would be a better version than the one included above.
CRA sent me some of those set layouts once. Sorry if this has been asked already, Shaw, but is there any chance you could post the large version of all those set layouts together sometime?

Thanks,
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Old April 24 2009, 12:04 AM   #994
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

TowerPower wrote: View Post
CRA sent me some of those set layouts once. Sorry if this has been asked already, Shaw, but is there any chance you could post the large version of all those set layouts together sometime?
Beyond bandwidth issues, I'm not sure of the copyright issues in publicly redistributing the full versions of those plans. What I've been releasing I am confident falls under the fair use definitions of US copyright laws, but what you are asking for comes too close to exceeding those privileges.

Frankly, I don't have the money, time or inclination push those boundaries.

But what I will do, and has always been part of this project, is provide redrawn versions of the set plans at much higher resolutions (as, again, that type of thing is covered under fair use). And hopefully I'll get that part of this done in the near future.

But those original plans are out there on the net... that was where I found them years ago.
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Old April 28 2009, 01:50 AM   #995
CuttingEdge100
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Sounds good enough to me
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Old April 28 2009, 08:18 AM   #996
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

There are two great deck plans threads going on right now (Cary's and TIN_MAN's). So given that I'm working on my model of the Enterprise, using it to help make corrections to my 33 inch Enterprise plans, and have a few new clients who need web sites ASAP, I would hope that those other two threads would be more than enough to keep even the biggest TOS fans happy for a while.

I know I'll be participating in both as time and energy permit, so be sure to show them as much support as you guys have shown me!
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Old April 28 2009, 08:28 PM   #997
2000ator
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Hi all.
These plans are great
I was also in the middle of some new visualisations of the Enterprise and seem to have found the bridge does fit after following the plan views and just making sure the turbo lifts line up from deck to deck. A composite of all the decks superimposed on one another seemed to be the key.
A startling and beutifull design is revealed in the Original deck plan concept by Matt and Franz Which I thought needed illuminating.

I'm starting a new thread called Enterprise Revealed.
Hope you enjoy it
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Old May 1 2009, 12:30 AM   #998
CuttingEdge100
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

2000ator,

The image did not load
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Old May 21 2009, 07:22 PM   #999
PvtKtara
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Passing on a question:

Poster currently in witness protection program asks:
How big would the pilot dome have to be to accomodate a forward facing bridge at its base? And what would that do to the overall size of the ship?
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Old May 21 2009, 07:38 PM   #1000
CuttingEdge100
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

PvtKtara,

Good question
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Old May 21 2009, 07:49 PM   #1001
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

PvtKtara wrote: View Post
Passing on a question:

Poster currently in witness protection program asks:
How big would the pilot dome have to be to accomodate a forward facing bridge at its base? And what would that do to the overall size of the ship?
That, of course, requires some other things to be established:

1) Is the lift on the C/L or is the viewscreen on the C/L? (I say the lift, but some other folks disagree).

2) What scale is the ship? (947', 1080', or something else - mine turns out to be 1067')

3) What do you use to define the bridge layout? (Stage-plan sketch, McMaster prints, etc)

4) Must the bridge be "in" the dome entirely, or can it be a half-deck (or more) inset into the B/C-deck superstructure? (I say no, it must be in the dome.)
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Old May 21 2009, 08:51 PM   #1002
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

PvtKtara wrote: View Post
Passing on a question:

Poster currently in witness protection program asks:
How big would the pilot dome have to be to accomodate a forward facing bridge at its base? And what would that do to the overall size of the ship?
Well, as a thought experiment starting with the assumption that the dome has to be big enough to fit all of the bridge (including the turbo lift) in it while still being centered, and using Jefferies' bridge set plans as a scale reference, the base of the dome would need a radius of about 24 feet to sorta work (with a little extra room for hull taper and thickness). Now assuming that the dome is 24 feet in radius, that would make the radius of the primary hull about 209 feet (or a diameter of 418 feet).

According to Jefferies, the primary hull is 417 feet in diameter.

So, could the larger dome of the pilot configurations of the 11 foot model been a direct consequence of Jefferies wanting the bridge facing forward? Sure.

Considering the timeline of events, the original plans were finished on November 7, 1964, the 33 inch model was largely complete by November 15, 1964, shooting on the bridge set started on November 30, 1964 and the 11 foot model wasn't started until December 8, 1964.

So the 33 inch model and original plans predate the bridge set, but the 11 foot model was built afterwards. It is possible that the overly large dome on that model was a direct result of the bridge not lining up with the turbo lift.

This is about what it would look like (using Casimiro's top view, red circle approximately the size of the original bridge)...


The larger the dome, the better the fit though... and the larger the scale of the ship. At about 26 or 27 feet for the radius you end up with a primary hull at about 453 to 471 feet in diameter.

By comparison, the only way the bridge can work on the 33 inch model is by rotating it, and after the chopping of the 11 foot model's bridge after WNMHGB, you really need to push it down to the next deck to keep it going straight (or end up with a scale closer to the new movie's Enterprise ).

Personally, I still like the turbo lift lining up with the turbo lift.


Overall, these are all very rough approximations... I'd rather wait for anything more precise until after I've finished my measurement survey of the 11 foot model.
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Old May 21 2009, 09:08 PM   #1003
ST-One
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

PvtKtara wrote: View Post
Passing on a question:

Poster currently in witness protection program asks:
How big would the pilot dome have to be to accomodate a forward facing bridge at its base? And what would that do to the overall size of the ship?
Say hello to CRA
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Old May 29 2009, 07:26 AM   #1004
PvtKtara
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Shaw wrote: View Post
PvtKtara wrote: View Post
Passing on a question:

Poster currently in witness protection program asks:
How big would the pilot dome have to be to accomodate a forward facing bridge at its base? And what would that do to the overall size of the ship?
Well, as a thought experiment starting with the assumption that the dome has to be big enough to fit all of the bridge (including the turbo lift) in it while still being centered, and using Jefferies' bridge set plans as a scale reference, the base of the dome would need a radius of about 24 feet to sorta work (with a little extra room for hull taper and thickness). Now assuming that the dome is 24 feet in radius, that would make the radius of the primary hull about 209 feet (or a diameter of 418 feet).

According to Jefferies, the primary hull is 417 feet in diameter.

So, could the larger dome of the pilot configurations of the 11 foot model been a direct consequence of Jefferies wanting the bridge facing forward? Sure.

Considering the timeline of events, the original plans were finished on November 7, 1964, the 33 inch model was largely complete by November 15, 1964, shooting on the bridge set started on November 30, 1964 and the 11 foot model wasn't started until December 8, 1964.

So the 33 inch model and original plans predate the bridge set, but the 11 foot model was built afterwards. It is possible that the overly large dome on that model was a direct result of the bridge not lining up with the turbo lift.

This is about what it would look like (using Casimiro's top view, red circle approximately the size of the original bridge)...


The larger the dome, the better the fit though... and the larger the scale of the ship. At about 26 or 27 feet for the radius you end up with a primary hull at about 453 to 471 feet in diameter.

By comparison, the only way the bridge can work on the 33 inch model is by rotating it, and after the chopping of the 11 foot model's bridge after WNMHGB, you really need to push it down to the next deck to keep it going straight (or end up with a scale closer to the new movie's Enterprise ).

Personally, I still like the turbo lift lining up with the turbo lift.


Overall, these are all very rough approximations... I'd rather wait for anything more precise until after I've finished my measurement survey of the 11 foot model.
So, the rough estimate is that CRA's idea regarding the bridge placement is workable, correct?
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Old May 29 2009, 09:56 AM   #1005
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

PvtKtara wrote: View Post
So, the rough estimate is that CRA's idea regarding the bridge placement is workable, correct?
For the sake of argument, lets look at the dates of events (and in some cases scheduled events) to see where things might have changed assuming that Jefferies wanted a forward facing bridge.

First, lets list dates of major events...
  • November 7, 1964: Construction plans for the model are completed, and as the one feature linking the scale of the model to the live action sets is the bridge, the overall size seems to have already been determined by this point.
  • November 15, 1964: The 33 inch model is brought to Roddenberry for comments and approval, and suggestions are made (this most likely included the addition of windows to the model).
  • November 27, 1964: Live action shooting is scheduled for the Transporter Room, Enterprise Passageway and Pike's Quarters.
  • November 30, 1964: Live action shooting is scheduled for the Bridge (which means construction of it might have been started by around the 15th).
  • December 1, 1964: Live action shooting is scheduled for the Bridge and Orion Courtyard.
  • December 8, 1964: Construction begins on 11 foot model of the Enterprise. Live action shooting is scheduled for the Rigel Fortress.
  • December 14, 1964: The 33 inch model is delivered to Roddenberry with the specified changes. This takes place during the filming of exterior shots at the Rigel Fortress (which may mean there were either delays in the schedule or a need for pickup shots).
  • December 24, 1964: Shooting of The Cage wraps (almost two weeks after the scheduled end of shooting), only one effects shot still outstanding.
  • December 29, 1964: The 11 foot model was delivered to the Howard A. Anderson studio.


Now, Jefferies' bridge plans without the turbo lift alcove and turbo lift fit very nicely into the bridge on the 33 inch model. Add those elements back in (inline with the center of the ship) and the alcove as constructed seems to push the turbo lift too far back.

Because the set is modular, it could have been design straight forward and had two sections switched towards completion. If it was done towards completion of the construction of the set, that would put the change at around November 29th (the day before shooting was scheduled to begin, with the crane shot scheduled for the 30th).

The diameter of the 11 foot models bridge is significantly larger than that 33 inch models, with the 11 foot model's turbo lift matching the set's position better (but this time being slightly too far back rather than slightly too close as on the 33 inch model). While the base of the new bridge structure is more than wide enough to rotate the filmed bridge configuration, the walls of the structure as built on the model narrow too quickly for it to fit nicely (the top, back half of the turbo lift would protrude). Still, the change in size may have been a last minute reaction to the altered set, and Jefferies (pressed for time) may have thought that just changing the diameter of the base would solve the problem. After that I'm sure he just learned to live with it.

For CRA's plans, the easiest solution (assuming he wants to stay with a 417 foot wide primary hull) would be to have the walls of the bridge structure taper less until just above the half height point. That would be enough to keep the turbo lift from protruding out into space.



Again, a lot of this is based on early rough measurements, and I would rather wait for a more detailed analysis until after I've made (and shared) better measurements of the 11 foot model.
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