RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,675
Posts: 5,429,801
Members: 24,823
Currently online: 623
Newest member: voyagerman49


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Fandom > Fan Art

Fan Art Post your Trek fan art here, including hobby models and collectibles.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old April 8 2009, 09:42 PM   #961
CuttingEdge100
Commodore
 
CuttingEdge100's Avatar
 
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

BrookeStephen,

Contrary to what you may or may not believe, I, myself, and most of the other members here actually do have a sense of humor.


CuttingEdge100
CuttingEdge100 is offline  
Old April 9 2009, 02:37 AM   #962
BrookeStephen
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
BrookeStephen,

Contrary to what you may or may not believe, I, myself, and most of the other members here actually do have a sense of humor.


CuttingEdge100

Sorry - when I get really bored, I get really silly....

AND I'm really bored.
__________________
"It's not time to stop killing our fellow human beings over bronze-age scribblings...
it's time to stop believing in bronze-age scribblings!
The world never ever was flat, no matter how many believed it."
BrookeStephen is offline  
Old April 9 2009, 03:55 AM   #963
Albertese
Commodore
 
Albertese's Avatar
 
Location: Portland, OR
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

So... has Shaw abandoned this project? I hope not, I always look forward to the next installment of this thread.

--Alex
Albertese is offline  
Old April 9 2009, 04:28 AM   #964
Shaw
Commodore
 
Shaw's Avatar
 
Location: Twin Cities
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

No... but I am taking something of a break.

This type of work, while fun and enjoyable, requires a lot of energy. In the last few weeks I've been getting a ton of work from my clients and I can't afford to turn that work away right now. Consequently, when I get a little free time I want to do something that doesn't require a lot of intensive thought.

So I've been working on my models because they are a less strenuous activity.

But even then, my working on my model of the Enterprise was always planned as a way of cross checking the 33 inch plans I drew up to find errors. I found a few (and so did Tallguy working from those plans), and I'm making note of changes to be made on them at some later date.

So again, no, I'm not abandoning anything. I've taken breaks in the past (there was a long one between August and December of last year), and usually it is because of real world responsibilities (because Trek stuff doesn't seem to pay the bills). I have been visiting the forum from time to time (reading interesting stuff like Praetor's Excelsior thread), but like the work in this thread, composing thoughtful responses requires more energy than I have right now.


So in general, to everyone who reads this every time there is a new post, I'm sorry that it seems like the thread is being bumped every so often with no new content. It will be a little while before I can devote some quality time to this.

In the mean time, TIN_MAN seems to be on a roll doing some interesting things in his thread on Franz Joseph's plans which I hope is not being over looked.
Shaw is offline  
Old April 9 2009, 10:13 PM   #965
TIN_MAN
Fleet Captain
 
TIN_MAN's Avatar
 
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

^^Thanks for the plug Shaw, I, of course, am still enjoying your threads particularly the new 33 incher one, I always thought that little gal never got enough TLC from fans, so it's nice to see she hasn't been forgoten.
TIN_MAN is offline  
Old April 9 2009, 10:46 PM   #966
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Ditto the thanks for the plug.
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline  
Old April 11 2009, 07:50 PM   #967
CuttingEdge100
Commodore
 
CuttingEdge100's Avatar
 
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

In some respects, I like the 33-incher better because the window position on the saucer rim makes more sense.

Although I could imagine for most aspects of detail and exact shape the 11-footer would be better.
CuttingEdge100 is offline  
Old April 15 2009, 03:06 AM   #968
Shaw
Commodore
 
Shaw's Avatar
 
Location: Twin Cities
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Jefferies and the Undercut

I'm putting this here as it has to do with Jefferies view of the Enterprise and the models as constructed under Datin's supervision, and next to nothing to do with Franz Joseph's work.

Before starting, and I'm amazed that this needs to be said at all, maybe we should review how to look at technical illustrations... specially in the days before computers. I'm seeing people examining Jefferies drawings from the writers guide and TMoST with what would have been considered practically a microscope back in the period when they were drawn. It seems that the ability for some people to read reduced information illustrations has been lost in this computer age.

As an example, lest do a comparison between Joseph's reduced information illustrations in his technical manual and his larger drawings in the Booklet of General Plans, and Jefferies' reduced information illustrations seen in TMoST and his larger drawings of the Enterprise model plans.


I would hope that that illustration alone would show the difference in how these illustrations should be studied. After all, how many of you guys pick apart Joseph's technical manual illustrations of the Constitution Class in the same way you've been looking at Jefferies' TMoST illustrations.

Not to labor on this too much more, but maybe it would be helpful for some to recall the scale at which these drawings were done relative to each other.


And recall that these weren't technical drawings in TMoST, these were reference drawings... designed to give the viewer (that is, the staff of Star Trek) a feel for how things were laid out.

Further, I think many of you guys should attempt to recreate the conditions Jefferies was working under. His curves on the Enterprise didn't match from drawing to drawing because they had to be redrawn each and every time. I have examples of three different primary hull cross section curves from the Phase II Enterprise (all done in 1977), all drawn by Jefferies, and all of the final design... but all hand drawn at vastly different scales to each other.

If you read this stuff as if they were using modern CAD software or illustration software or even 3D software, you're putting yourself on track for some interesting wild goose chases by over thinking the whole thing.

_____________

With all that having been said, lets look at how one might want to approach the subject of the undercut. See, looking at Jefferies' plans, I don't think he even thought of there being an undercut. I think he considered the whole outer ring hanging down as an addition to the structure of the primary hull.

Consider his drawings. All of them (small, medium and large) have a characteristic line along the lower edge of the primary hull. At that line the outer edge changes drastically in direction before reaching it's lowest point. What we see on the models as a somewhat smooth undercut is that hanging structure returning to the plane of that outer line seen on the edge of the primary hull.

Without having more of the plans it is hard to be certain, but this is an estimate of what Jefferies might have been wanting the cross section of the primary hull to look like.


So the next obvious question is... why didn't he get that on the models?

The answer is that he sort of did get it, to a degree, on the 11 foot model. Because the edge on the model changes from being a straight slope to a continuous curve (around to the underside of the primary hull) at about where that point would be.

_____________

While we are on this subject, this brings up an interesting point about the windows on the edge of the primary hull. What I found in my studies of the 11 foot model is that the point at which that curve starts on the outer edge is also the depth of the undercut. More importantly, that area (between the top edge and the beginning of the undercut) is a wood ring structure supporting the model. When the model was modified to be lit, there were rectangular boxes cut into the ring and the windows were lit from them using clear rods placed in holes drilled from the outer edge in.

So the windows are clustered in rows too close together along the center of the edge because that was where the wood was. so the lowest windows/port holes along the edge are above the top of the undercut.

This, of course, won't make any difference on the current version of my plans as all the windows on it were painted on the model at that point. But future versions will take into account the addition of lit windows (and where and how they were placed within the model).

_____________

On a side note... I'll be getting back into the swing of this project as I finish up on my model of the Enterprise. That model has been great for working on details of my plans of the 33 inch model.
Shaw is offline  
Old April 15 2009, 03:30 AM   #969
Captain Robert April
Vice Admiral
 
Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

No doubt about it.

They've gotta add a "drool" smilie to this board.
Captain Robert April is offline  
Old April 15 2009, 03:44 AM   #970
BrookeStephen
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Shaw wrote: View Post
Jefferies and the Undercut
...
With all that having been said, lets look at how one might want to approach the subject of the undercut. See, looking at Jefferies' plans, I don't think he even thought of there being an undercut. I think he considered the whole outer ring hanging down as an addition to the structure of the primary hull.
Now that's what I'm talkin about (in the FJ Plans thread)!!!!

No more undercut!
No more undercut!
No more undercut!
LOL
__________________
"It's not time to stop killing our fellow human beings over bronze-age scribblings...
it's time to stop believing in bronze-age scribblings!
The world never ever was flat, no matter how many believed it."
BrookeStephen is offline  
Old April 15 2009, 03:48 AM   #971
Captain Robert April
Vice Admiral
 
Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Unfortunately, it's not that easy.

Otherwise, that new ship in JJ's misbegotten flick would've vanished in a puff of fannish outrage months ago.
Captain Robert April is offline  
Old April 15 2009, 03:34 PM   #972
Tallguy
Fleet Captain
 
Tallguy's Avatar
 
Location: Beyond the Farthest Star
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

An interesting insight. I'll be curious to see how it pans out. (I think I followed all of it.)
__________________
-- Bill "Tallguy" Thomas
"All I ask is a tall ship..."
Tallguy is offline  
Old April 15 2009, 03:35 PM   #973
Tallguy
Fleet Captain
 
Tallguy's Avatar
 
Location: Beyond the Farthest Star
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Oh, and I got so caught up with the undercut, I forgot: bravo with the plans comparison. People don't realize how EASY it is to do the stuff we do now.
__________________
-- Bill "Tallguy" Thomas
"All I ask is a tall ship..."
Tallguy is offline  
Old April 15 2009, 11:07 PM   #974
EliyahuQeoni
Commodore
 
EliyahuQeoni's Avatar
 
Location: Redmond, Oregon, United States of America, North America, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way, Universe
View EliyahuQeoni's Twitter Profile
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

middyseafort wrote: View Post
You have anthropology but what about archeology?
Well, strictly speaking, Archaeology is a sub-discipline of Anthropology (One needs to get a BA in Anthropology before getting a grad degree in Archaeology).
__________________
"Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a Star Trek fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'." - Leonard Nimoy
EliyahuQeoni is offline  
Old April 16 2009, 09:54 AM   #975
Captain Robert April
Vice Admiral
 
Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I seem to recall McCoy referring to Lt. Palomas as the A&A officer, archeology and anthropology. Or ancient civilizations. I really should watch that one again....
Captain Robert April is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:39 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.