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Old March 27 2009, 03:52 AM   #931
USS Mariner
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

^Bah. This ain't worrisome.
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Old March 27 2009, 04:10 AM   #932
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Devon wrote: View Post
FalTorPan wrote: View Post
That's pretty lousy treatment of Mr. Mandel. Fortunately the man is talented enough to continue a prosperous career, and fortunately I've now decided not to spend the money to watch the film in first run.
If your "justification" is just because of something that is probably common practice in the industry, then perhaps you should also not spend any more money on all of Trek in the time being.
Perhaps you should not presume to suggest how I should spend or not spend my own money. Paramount's decision to fire Mandel was a business decision. Similarly my decision not to waste $10 on watching the upcoming movie in first run is a business decision.
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Last edited by FalTorPan; March 27 2009 at 05:11 AM.
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Old March 27 2009, 05:11 AM   #933
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Psst...Mandel, not Eaves...
Thanks. Fixed.
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Old March 31 2009, 08:30 AM   #934
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

anonymous wrote:
But in turn you have to understand that you have put your work out there, and represent it as correct, and are seemingly currently representing it as the only correct public reconstruction despite the fact that its unfinished. Do you honestly think we don't have any right to discuss it? Or criticize it? Even if incorrectly due to a lack of information?
-and-
Your assumption that your work is better, and seemingly without flaws, is a more interesting claim in my book. I didn't get the memo that everyone else's work was made obsolete by yours and is not to be used. Did anyone else?
-and-
"Forensic Treknology" is a similar process. Observers make difficult observations under less than ideal conditions without the proper equipment. They analyze the data and form a hypothesis (in the form of plans, etc.). The next step is to compare their work with what has come before and any other competitors. Generally, I think that 'the young pup' doesn't get to start out as 'top dog'. In this case before it is born. You may be the new standard of comparison, but vigorous proclamations to that effect doesn't get you there. At least it shouldn't. This is not to say that your work is not the best, or that it won't be vindicated in the end.
After an encounter with this troubled sole I couldn't help but wonder if there are others harboring similar notions.

Hopefully everyone here has read the sign on the door, which reads...


Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans


So no matter what anyone else says, believes or what not... lets be really clear here. I only represent this as my work, to which I only claim to be doing my best and it is done strictly as a labor of love.

The bizarre ideas quoted above are even more outlandish when one considers the fact that I have (to date) only released sketches of elements of this work. The fact that anyone would think that I would think that my unfinished work (which in my mind is total crap!) is either perfect or flawless is themselves delusional.

I am always happy for the praise I've gotten in this thread... but it seems like others are assuming that I share that point of view. In reality, the praise makes it even harder because I feel more pressure (because I don't see my work measuring up to what others seem to be seeing in it). I don't want more pressure, I wanted to discuss some ideas I have had with others who enjoy this subject.

So for those who think that I think that I'm the greatest Trek guy around who sees himself as "the new standard"... please, seek help! I'm never made any proclamations (vigorously or otherwise) to that effect.

For everyone, the only thing I am willing to guarantee is that in the end I will have done my best (or I won't release any of it if I don't think it meets my standards ). I will attempt not to remake any of the mistakes that others before me made, but I'm quite sure I'll be making all sorts of new ones.

I do want to apologize for wasting so much time in the last week on this trivial stuff (that has nothing to do with my actual work) or attempts to explain things that have been discussed at length in this thread else where when I could have been finishing off my studies of the 11 foot model's nacelles. I will endeavor to not let this type of thing happen again.





As a side note, even though it has been stated many times before, it bares repeating... I have sequestered all other reference plans that I have to the 11 foot model and have avoided a direct comparison of my work with that of others unless in the final stages as a method for cross checking. If things don't match, I go back to the model and try to see why.

I know I've stated this before, but some people just won't get it no matter how often I say it.
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Old March 31 2009, 11:45 AM   #935
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Unless one gets a look at original archival material (such as construction plans) then this kind of project entails a lot of speculation. And anyone who undertakes such a project is likely to have differing perspectives and thus come up with different answers to "fill in the blanks."

Even original plans may not be the final word if the actual models deviated in some manner from those plans. Shaw isn't the first and most likely won't be the last to attempt integrating disparate representations of the TOS Enterprise into a coherent whole.

Will it be definitive? That really depends on every individual's perspective because there was never a truly definitive version of the ship in the first place. There was a flawed and incomplete filming miniature and interior sets where each viewer basically filled in the blanks with their imagination. This is little different from fans of a novel having different interpretations of the book being adapted to live-action.

Shaw has his vision of what the Enterprise is while trying to respect what is actually known and established. And I respect his vision (and others before him) even if I may disagree on certain points.
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Old March 31 2009, 02:05 PM   #936
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

That person clearly has issues. I wouldn't worry about it Shaw.
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Old March 31 2009, 03:12 PM   #937
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Keep working.
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Old March 31 2009, 03:17 PM   #938
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Yeah, back to work, Shaw.
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Old March 31 2009, 06:43 PM   #939
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Well, Shaw, what you have so far is 10 time better than the old FJ plans. Far more accurate to what we saw on screen. I know what you have is not complete, but you seem to be accounting for everything I can think of that was wrong with the FJ plans. You are nailing down the Enterprise with far more certainty than anyone has been able to do with the Millenium Falcon (there's a nightmare). Keep up the good work and don't feel pressured.
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Old April 3 2009, 04:50 AM   #940
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

FalTorPan,

Perhaps you should not presume to suggest how I should spend or not spend my own money. Paramount's decision to fire Mandel was a business decision. Similarly my decision not to waste $10 on watching the upcoming movie in first run is a business decision.
Agreed
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Old April 3 2009, 04:29 PM   #941
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Shaw wrote: View Post
USS Mariner wrote: View Post
Links, please. As little confidence as I put in JJ, this sounds suspect.
Well, as I was expressing my opinion (and what it was based on) and not trying to shape anyone else's (seeing as people reach their own conclusions just fine without my help), I don't see why it would matter one way or the other how I got the information.






But if it matters that much to ya (and my accounting of information like this doesn't stand on it's own), maybe this will meet your standards...
John Eaves, March 16, 2009 at 1:15 pm
I did make it on the new one!!! My friend Geoffry Mandell and I were some of the only folks that worked on any of the previous Treks to get on the new one. One day Geoff had to scale the Enterprise and he did so by picturing the new ship in comparison to the previous ships,, He was let go the next day for being to attached and close to the older shows,,,,, I stayed very very quiet after that dark day I can tell you!!! HAAAA!
Or maybe not.

Should I start providing links for everything I post now? I wasn't aware that my credit had dropped that low.
Is there any possibility of taking a look at Mr. Mandell's artwork what started all this...?
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Old April 3 2009, 07:23 PM   #942
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Back to business.

Since the Enterprise has 14 science laboratories onboard. It would be useful to know what these science laboratories are.

There is obviously going to be a Physics lab, a Biology-lab, a Chemistry-Lab, and a Geology Lab. There of course are going to be overlaps as for example we have biochemistry, there's going to be xeno-biology which includes aliens and such, and the like.

I think it would be good to come up with 14 labs. Preferably anything that actually was mentioned to exist on the ship.


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Old April 3 2009, 07:35 PM   #943
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

1. Physics (Quantum/Micro)
2. Physics (Astrological/Macro)
3. Chemistry (Practical/Physical)
4. (Chemistry (Formulation/wetwork)
5. Mechanical and Engineering
6. Anthropological and Planetary Studies
7. Cybernetics and AI
8. Biological (Study/Growth)
9. Biology (Genetics)
10. Cartiographic Studies
11. High Energy Studies
12. Zero-G / Micro-environmental Studies
13. Xenobiological Research
14. Linguistics, Pictographic studies and Translative studies

Not very accurate but just some ideas.
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Old April 3 2009, 07:46 PM   #944
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
1. Physics (Quantum/Micro)
2. Physics (Astrological/Macro)
3. Chemistry (Practical/Physical)
4. (Chemistry (Formulation/wetwork)
5. Mechanical and Engineering
6. Anthropological and Planetary Studies
7. Cybernetics and AI
8. Biological (Study/Growth)
9. Biology (Genetics)
10. Cartiographic Studies
11. High Energy Studies
12. Zero-G / Micro-environmental Studies
13. Xenobiological Research
14. Linguistics, Pictographic studies and Translative studies

Not very accurate but just some ideas.
You have anthropology but what about archeology?
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Old April 3 2009, 08:01 PM   #945
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Hmm. Some of those could be merged, making a Geological, Seismology and Archeology Studies Lab.
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