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Old February 25 2009, 11:11 PM   #796
Praetor
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Shaw wrote: View Post
Taking a break from my studies of the 11 foot model (I'm working on the geometry of the dorsal, which can be tedious at times), I thought I would return to the arrangement of the ship itself for a moment.

One of the areas that I'm pretty sure I differ with other people on is the nature of the main navigational sensor/deflector architecture. Most people seem to envision a large amount of hardware supporting the exterior rings and dish directly behind and in the core of the secondary hull. I envision there is a shielded bulkhead there and that the external hardware we see is modular in design and supposed to be easily replaceable.
Personally, as long as the rings reflect what existed on the model, I think that's what I'd envision too. I have always tended to think that the 'rings' were basically internalized in later designs, and are analagous to that 'internal' hardware seen in later ships' cutaways. Having the module be swappable is an excellent idea.

Further, the three sensor boxes are actually holding and connecting the module to the secondary hull. Their function isn't all that different from that of the umbilical connector between the Apollo command module and service module.


Currently in my sketches I have the front bulkhead of the secondary hull flat, but eventually it'll be concave to make room for part of the module (which was replaced between the pilot and series versions of the ship).

Anyways, I just thought I'd share that concept with you guys.
That works fine for me. Perhaps these earlier sensors/deflectors off-put a lot more radiation than later models? Will your sensor boxes still also have sensors in them?
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Old February 26 2009, 07:44 PM   #797
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

The main point behind the idea is that it should be an easily replaceable component... 24 to 48 hours of service. No dry dock needed, just swap it out.

One could say that this part of the ship's technology was known to be in a state of flux when the ship was originally designed and constructed. And to make sure it didn't limit the life span of the vessel, this part was left as modular as possible. I mean, when you think about it the ship had the cone shaped structure while it was still in the design phase, it was (most likely) constructed with a larger dish (that may have been less efficient), which was replaced with a smaller one and finally given an integrated structure like shown for Phase II or in TMP.

Praetor wrote: View Post
Perhaps these earlier sensors/deflectors off-put a lot more radiation than later models? Will your sensor boxes still also have sensors in them?
Might have even been something as simple as putting out more heat while in extended use... the deflector burnt out the ship's power systems in Mudd's Women, and it (along with the phaser banks and running at high warp) contributed to crippling the main engines beyond repair (while in space) in The Paradise Syndrome, so it seems like an intense piece of equipment even without knowing it's inner workings.

As for the box structures... in the beginning (when they were still featureless) I wouldn't think they served any purpose other than to hold the equipment in place and provide the needed connection to the rest of the ship. Later when more features were added (for the series version of the ship) it would seem the addition of sensors would be the best explanation for those changes.

____________

A little off topic (unless you realize that my main motivation for doing these types of plans is to one day build models based on them) I've been reviewing my two starship models. I had wanted to build a model of the Enterprise based on my 33 inch plans, but realized that I would face fewer obstacles if I settled on a two-thirds scale version so I could utilize existing parts and decals for the AMT 22 inch cut-away model.

I bought two kits to use as donors for the project, and went through and figured out what I could use (or modify) and what I would need to basically build from scratch. I kept a modified secondary hull, altered the warp nacelles (including extending the inner trenches back further) and will use a modified version of the supports (because the nacelles are supposed to be closer together than the kit has them). The dorsal and primary hull are basically being built from scratch based on a scaled down version of my plans.


Strangely enough, this left me with enough parts to build a second (basically stock) 22 inch model... which I decided would be the Constellation. While closer to being finished, it is far from being done.


In the images above the model has been test assembled... I haven't glued most of it together yet (I believe a well built model can stand on it's own without glue). I've started painting the primary and secondary hulls, and thats about it.

Part of the reason for pulling out these models is to compare and contrast the dorsal I built for my 22 inch Enterprise with what I'm seeing while studying the 11 foot model.
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Old February 26 2009, 10:20 PM   #798
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Spiffy! You've put an admirable effort in accurizing that beauty.

I ended up getting two of the 22" ship myself... one is a Phase II in progress. The one I finished and closed fell off my shelf and needs nacelle surgery.

Oh, and I do quite agree with your deflector thinking.
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Old February 26 2009, 11:22 PM   #799
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Shaw,

I've never quite got the point of having all those windows in the neck. The neck is not much wider than the turbolift shaft running through it...

Regarding the parts on the ship which you have labled the "Umbilical connectors" at least in TMP were called the Space/Energy-Field Attraction Sensors. They seem to be part of the Sensor-Dish/Nagivational-Deflector system
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Old February 26 2009, 11:35 PM   #800
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
Shaw,

I've never quite got the point of having all those windows in the neck. The neck is not much wider than the turbolift shaft running through it...

Regarding the parts on the ship which you have labled the "Umbilical connectors" at least in TMP were called the Space/Energy-Field Attraction Sensors. They seem to be part of the Sensor-Dish/Nagivational-Deflector system
On the other hand, the dorsal (or "neck") is as wider than a typical wide-body airliner (ignore the super-large ones like the 747 or the A380, of course... it's slightly smaller than the 747 and quite a bit smaller than the A380, laterally).

From that standpoint, the windows make a bit more sense. There are very few locations inside the ship which have windows (and realize that at least SOME of those "windows" we see are probably sensor windows, not viewing windows... I typically assume the round ones are for sensors of various sorts while the square ones are for viewing purposes).

And remember, the crew can't just open the doors and go outside.

From this standpoint, those windows make a lot of sense. And they make even more sense when you consider the (actually rather odd) way that the ship orbits the planet.

Most of the time, our own spacecraft orbit the Earth with the planet either above or below them. It's less common for a "sideways" orbit.

But in a "sideways orbit," you have the opportunity for crewmen, otherwise staring at the same walls all the time, to see a planet... to get a sense of there being a real world out there.

Also, FJ's blueprints notwithstanding, I've always assumed that crewmen would be bunked with several to a room on a ship this size (it's not a flying hotel, it's a machine... with spaces for crew along for the ride).

SO... the dorsal really ought to be largely made up of either "common lounges" for groups of people, or a few small "privacy viewing rooms." I'd make the vertical rows of windows be for those "privacy rooms" while the horizontal rows would be "common viewing lounges."

I might also put the VIP quarters in that part of the ship. An ambassador or a senior admiral really ought to have a room with a view, after all, and it would be a more private spot than virtually anywhere else in the ship. You could give over and entire deck (in the dorsal) to an ambassador and his staff, after all, and they'd be quite comfortable.

So it makes perfect sense to me. Your mileage may vary.
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Old February 27 2009, 03:26 AM   #801
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I quite agree with that thinking myself, Cary.
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Old March 1 2009, 01:27 AM   #802
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I really like Cary's idea for VIP quarters... I could see something that looks like the master cabin of a yacht on one or more of those decks.
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Old March 1 2009, 05:37 AM   #803
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Shaw,

I figure you'd want all the crew quarters and VIP quarters to be in the saucer... At least enough quarter space for 430 people.

Keep in mind, in an emergency it can separate from the main hull and kind of doubles as a giant lifeboat.


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Old March 1 2009, 05:47 AM   #804
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

FWIW, the 'Officers Manual' had the neck separating with the saucer, though.
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Old March 1 2009, 06:32 AM   #805
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
I figure you'd want all the crew quarters and VIP quarters to be in the saucer... At least enough quarter space for 430 people.

Keep in mind, in an emergency it can separate from the main hull and kind of doubles as a giant lifeboat.
In an emergency most people wouldn't be lounging around in their cabins...
  • Yellow Alert: Previous shift reports to their stations.
  • Red Alert: All shifts report to their stations.
  • Double Red Alert: Evacuate that compartment.

What I find incredibly bizarre is the discussions over in the Trek Tech Forum where people spend all their time envisioning how these ships would fall apart if they were in battle (as if battles were their primary purpose).

How often in TOS was the Enterprise seriously damage by an attacking enemy vessel? How many crew members in TOS died when the Enterprise was attacked by an enemy vessel? How damaged was the most damaged starship we saw in TOS? And did any of these starships have dorsal problems?

Battles were rare, battle damage even more so, battle fatalities were rare... and there weren't even seat belts!

You can over prepare for the worst. I'm sure that you have a 5-point seat belt in your car, which is equipped with a roll cage, and that you wear fire resistant clothing and a helmet every time you drive... the rest of us wear our seat belts and do our best to avoid accidents, and go on with life.




Honestly... you would be in more danger walking on a peaceful picturesque planet while wearing a red shirt than you would be on the Enterprise in battle.
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Old March 1 2009, 03:24 PM   #806
Jag2112
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Adding to this thread, I thought I would mention that I've uploaded the first set of "Interactive" Enterprise Deck plans to my site.

Unlike the other 2,000 or so blueprints that I have online, this set of deck plans, which is based on the works of Franz Joseph's original Enterprise blueprints as well as the Star Fleet Technical Manual, allows your to work your way through all 24 decks of the Enterprise, with details on ever major section.

To access the deckplans, click this link: http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars...lans/index.php

I hope you enjoy them-

-John
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Old March 1 2009, 07:17 PM   #807
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Praetor wrote: View Post
FWIW, the 'Officers Manual' had the neck separating with the saucer, though.
Absolutely. You need SOME allowance for crew quartering in the secondary hull.

I break the Enterprise up into, not a "crew hull" and an "equipment hull" but rather a "mission-functions hull" and a "enabling-the-mission-functions hull."

So the overwhelming majority of science labs and command-and-control systems would be in the primary hull, while the majority of the propulsive-control systems and "dirty" life-support systems as well as the cargo facilities would be in the secondary hull.

If the Enterprise was a house, the primary hull would be the main floor and the secondary hull would be the basement.

But... given that... it only makes sense for crew quarters for the main engineering team to be somewhere pretty close to main engineering. For the quartermaster to have his quarters near the cargo facilities. For the shuttle pilots to have their quarters near the shuttlebay. While you'd want the medical personnel to be quartered near sickbay (in the primary hull) and so on. In case of an emergency, you don't want crew to have to migrate from one end of the ship to the other in order to respond, do you?

So there SHOULD be quarters in the secondary hull. But probably (in the case of an "explorer-refit" Constitution-class) not as many as there would be in the primary hull.

And FJ was entirely correct, and SMART, about insisting on having some billeting in the secondary hull, in case they needed to separate the ship and use either portion to support the entire crew temporarily. They might end up eight-to-a-single-cabin, but they'd be able to survive.
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Old March 2 2009, 12:58 AM   #808
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
If the Enterprise was a house, the primary hull would be the main floor and the secondary hull would be the basement.
Very good comparison.
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Old March 2 2009, 02:59 AM   #809
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Reads as a good rationale for a second - third or fifth? - look at the 1701-A, then...
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Old March 2 2009, 08:47 AM   #810
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Shaw,

I wasn't suggesting that everybody would be lounging during an emergency. However once the ship separates, you would ideally have everybody in the saucer. And once the emergency is abated as the saucer continues to cruise around you would need to have enough room for everybody to sleep!
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