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Old February 2 2009, 10:25 PM   #691
uniderth
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

So does the scale of the shuttles in your hanger bay match what was seen on screen?
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Old February 3 2009, 04:08 AM   #692
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I think he's using Warped9's shuttles, which are a teensy bit larger (to accommodate a not-quite-as-large-as-onscreen interior).
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Old February 3 2009, 01:15 PM   #693
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
I think he's using Warped9's shuttles, which are a teensy bit larger (to accommodate a not-quite-as-large-as-onscreen interior).
Yeah... What he said.

Warped9 had a great diagram that showed the full scale exterior mock-up size, his derived size and the size needed for the filming interior with a 5' 10' officer standing next to the three of them. That diagram showed just how much smaller the exterior mock-up was compared to what I'm using in these sketches.
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Old February 3 2009, 02:04 PM   #694
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Ok cool. Just want to get my story straight. Hehehe. Great work on this!
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Old February 3 2009, 02:34 PM   #695
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I can only add an observation here. The 11ft. filming miniature (such as it is) can best be said to represent a 947ft. ship even if the model itself doesn't exactly scale out that way. This is just another one of those production inconsistencies borne out of making do with what you have. It's just less noticeable here then it is with the shuttlecraft.

The onscreen shuttlecraft exterior mockup was about 22ft. long. My shuttlecraft is just under 26.5 ft. To get a shuttlecraft with the 7ft. interior we saw onscreen you'd need one more than 31ft. long, and such a large vehicle doesn't work for the space available in the hangar deck.
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Old February 3 2009, 02:51 PM   #696
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Actually, it was just one of those things where I ended up with two bays behind the hangar that were the full height of deck 16 and I thought that it would be interesting to have the other side of that back gallery look over those bays as well. They are there mainly as a place to sort cargo before moving it to storage or possibly for assembly and disassembly of equipment.

Odds are more would be happening in those bays to observe than the hangar, so I thought those windows would be a nice addition. But that was totally my idea as we never get to see any of that type of thing in the series.
The layout would nicely dovetail to the later ST:TMP appearance of major cavities "on the other side" - or the two garage doors that lead to underneath the observation level in the ST5 version of the area. Too bad that we saw so little of the set for the observation level in that latter movie. Or, more accurately, too bad that so little of it was ever constructed.

(In fact, even what little they did is enough to cause problems. Scotty seems to be looking at the hangar from ship centerline - but our other heroes then proceed to a turbolift station that sits right below Scotty's feet. This station would seem to replace the doorway visible in your B-B section, which I agree is a logical place for the door witnessed in TOS. Does the ST5 turbolift perhaps first travel a bit horizontally towards the bow before heading up?)

An alternate setup would have the TOS doorway at one corner of the deck, inset inside the larger trapezoid alcove to the starboard side, and at an angle; a symmetric door would no doubt be on the other side. The front bulkhead of the hangar could look identical to the ST5 one, then, and have a means of moving outsize cargo or entire shuttlecraft to the other side. There would be just barely room for the small staging area (?) between the rectangular pocket doors leading to the hangar alcove, and the trapezoid doorframe leading to the ship proper, but the sets would have to be reinterpreted a bit to create a sensible layout... Something I'd hate to have to accept.

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Old February 4 2009, 05:07 AM   #697
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I think the only workable solution regarding the hangar deck strangeness is start with the position that the interior of the 1701 refit is quite a bit different than the 1701-A, i.e., the E-A's interior, specifically the secondary hull, probably more closely resembles the original Enterprise than the refit does.
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Old February 4 2009, 05:12 AM   #698
CuttingEdge100
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

One thing I'm wondering about is... how many turbolifts are there in the whole ship?

There can't be just one? There are probably a couple -- so where the others stowed when not in use?


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Old February 4 2009, 05:24 AM   #699
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I put 'em in the neck. Pretty much devoted the whole section to turbolift maintenance (had to do something with the area and justify having that many windows there).
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Old February 4 2009, 07:58 PM   #700
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Captain Robert April,

Are you serious? The neck would encounter major twisting loads (you'd have a huge saucer on top, and the engineering hull on the bottom) you'd want that part of the ship to be beefed up -- I wouldn't want to be just stuffing turbo-lifts in there.

I'm thinking deleting the computer core or at least shrinking it drastically, then stuffing the lifts in the middle of the saucer.

Sounds way more practical to me


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Old February 5 2009, 02:33 AM   #701
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

^ In order to have twisting loads you have to have gravity! There is no gravity in space!
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Old February 5 2009, 03:39 AM   #702
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

ncc-1017-e,

G-forces actually have little to do with gravity -- it has to do with forces of acceleration.

When the ship would roll or yaw there would be large twisting loads imposed on the connecting-dorsal (the neck)


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Old February 5 2009, 05:35 AM   #703
uniderth
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Ever since I saw this technology I thought future starship construction would use something similar.

http://www.isotruss.org/
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Old February 5 2009, 07:08 AM   #704
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Shaw wrote: View Post
DS9Sega wrote: View Post
Hey Shaw. One question about the hangar deck observation deck. I notice the profile of the space in your centerline cutaway doesn't match that in Jefferies drawing. Yours is symmetical, and his isn't. Is there a reason for this? Something related to the set plans perhaps?
Actually, it was just one of those things where I ended up with two bays behind the hangar that were the full height of deck 16 and I thought that it would be interesting to have the other side of that back gallery look over those bays as well. They are there mainly as a place to sort cargo before moving it to storage or possibly for assembly and disassembly of equipment.

Odds are more would be happening in those bays to observe than the hangar, so I thought those windows would be a nice addition. But that was totally my idea as we never get to see any of that type of thing in the series.
Ah, I see. Thanks for replying. Given your fidelity to much of Mr. Jefferies designs I was surprised that you'd done this is all, given what his cutaway plan for the hangar shows.
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Old February 5 2009, 09:56 AM   #705
Timo
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Are you serious? The neck would encounter major twisting loads (you'd have a huge saucer on top, and the engineering hull on the bottom) you'd want that part of the ship to be beefed up -- I wouldn't want to be just stuffing turbo-lifts in there.
Why would the lift shops preclude the presence of beefing-up features?

The neck does have those windows, and thus has inhabited spaces there, whether they be accommodation or workspaces. Any bracing already exists in such a manner that the spaces can exist, too. But granted that it would be a bit odd to give the turbolift repairmen these windows at their place of work when top officers get none in their quarters or briefing rooms...

Speaking of structural loads, the real problems at the hangar area aren't related to turboshaft or doorway placement. They rotate around the mechanism by which the engine pylons attach to the hull. If the hull inboard of the pylon stems can be a hollow cylinder, implying that the pylons are simply welded to the outer skin, then any talk about "bracing" or "beefing up" in the neck is moot - if the materials can withstand welded-on pylons, then the neck can withstand being a hollow shell.

OTOH, if the pylons do go all the way to meet at some sort of a central "keel" or other strongback, then we're rather screwed as regards the interior layout of that area.

Which, on page 36 of this thread, comes as no surprise to anybody. But it does highlight the fact that Jeffries might not have been thinking everything through from Day One yet, and might have been forced to compromise a lot after the exterior layout was approved by his bosses.

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