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Old February 2 2009, 01:38 AM   #676
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

uniderth wrote: View Post
Would those windows even match the window sizes and locations on the hull?
No... which is why I think they covered them up pretty early on in the series.

Other windows seen in the series do work (in both size and placement) so these were either a mistake or (as some have suggested) a feature in all cabins to provide a more livable environment with artificial windows.

Again, the only reason for providing that image was as a reference to the set plans which match the cabins arranged in the previous images.

In the finished plans the cabin detailing will look more like what is seen in this image... but for these sketches I just used a simple outline of the cabin as a placeholder.
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Old February 2 2009, 01:47 AM   #677
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Shaw...

I read the first couple of posts in this thread... according to what you said you re-sized the Enterprise carrier as 1,101-feet, and re-scaled the NCC-1701 to that?

I should note CVN-65 was 1,123 feet back then because of the bridle-catchers (those two prongs on the front of the ship)... it's now 1,101 because they don't use bridles on navy planes anymore and they eliminated them as a result.

That doesn't mean that you re-scale NCC-1701 to match it... it's still 947 feet and hasn't been shortened...


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Old February 2 2009, 01:55 AM   #678
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

The reason I ask is because there's still the matter of at least a couple of transporter rooms, rec rooms, ship's theatre, labs, gymnasium, *coughbowlingalleycough*, food and water storage, y'know, that sort of thing.
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Old February 2 2009, 03:39 AM   #679
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Shaw wrote: View Post
uniderth wrote: View Post
Would those windows even match the window sizes and locations on the hull?
No... which is why I think they covered them up pretty early on in the series.

Other windows seen in the series do work (in both size and placement) so these were either a mistake or (as some have suggested) a feature in all cabins to provide a more livable environment with artificial windows.

Again, the only reason for providing that image was as a reference to the set plans which match the cabins arranged in the previous images.

In the finished plans the cabin detailing will look more like what is seen in this image... but for these sketches I just used a simple outline of the cabin as a placeholder.
I would say mistake turned easily retcon-able fake window is a great way to treat it.
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Old February 2 2009, 04:11 AM   #680
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
I read the first couple of posts in this thread... according to what you said you re-sized the Enterprise carrier as 1,101-feet, and re-scaled the NCC-1701 to that?
No.

Here is the thing about doing scales... you set up a scale in feet and resize diagrams to match that scale to see how they compare. In the case of the original image I was using I set the scale to 3 pixels = 1 foot and scaled both according to the given lengths.

Please attempt not to over complicate this stuff.

Further, that was the restoration of Jefferies's original construction plans and not the plans I've been using in this thread since about page 2 or 3 (which are based on my early studies of the 11 foot model).

But to make this very clear... everything is scaled according to it's measurements in feet on all my work. I don't do relative measurements... just straight feet to feet conversion of original scalings.

I should note CVN-65 was 1,123 feet back then because of the bridle-catchers (those two prongs on the front of the ship)... it's now 1,101 because they don't use bridles on navy planes anymore and they eliminated them as a result.
I used the most recent data I had on the carrier and hand made that diagram myself based on a recent (post 1980) configuration. This is pretty much what she looks like today...



And I sighted my references for the measurement.

That doesn't mean that you re-scale NCC-1701 to match it... it's still 947 feet and hasn't been shortened...
You're over thinking this... it means that both were scaled to the feet measurements given.

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Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
The reason I ask is because there's still the matter of at least a couple of transporter rooms, rec rooms, ship's theatre, labs, gymnasium, *coughbowlingalleycough*, food and water storage, y'know, that sort of thing.
Well... what percentage of the total available deck space have I assigned to these elements? I've been very clear about where cabins are going to go (and not go), so if you mark off those areas on a diagram like this one of the primary hull...


or this one for the secondary hull's decks...


Does it really seem like there is a shortage of space? And if we look at deck 5 by itself, I made sure not to use the aft quadrants of ring 1 because they are ideal for oversize facilities.

Food, water and air are all part of waste-management. Vast amounts of this stuff isn't needed as the Enterprise is a closed system. What you have is what you have is what you have. With nothing in and nothing out, the ship should handle extreme duration missions with only the expenditure of power needed to recondition all these elements. Same with clothing and other like items.

So not only is very little space needed for such things... but all compartments have their own rudimentary abilities in these areas in the case that they are isolated.

It is obviously not at TNG levels, but still quite comfortable and capable.

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Praetor wrote: View Post
I would say mistake turned easily retcon-able fake window is a great way to treat it.
Too bad it wasn't my idea.

Last edited by Shaw; February 2 2009 at 04:13 AM. Reason: add reply
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Old February 2 2009, 04:33 AM   #681
uniderth
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I had read back in this thread when these "windows" were discussed. It was suggested that they were holographic windows with star displays.

I would like to sugest that maybe these are "mood light panels." I got this idea after watching "The Cage." I notice that Pike's "window" is:

A. Wider at the top then the bottom. Thus not fitting any windows on the outside of the ship.
B. The translucent covering changed color as the scene goes on.

There's also a little button on the "sil" of the "window." So I thought maybe this was some sort of mood light panel. It would also explain why they were removed later during the series. They became unpopular.

Also how long is your Enterprise. My Enterprise is 1100 feet. I scaled mine to fit the hanger deck and shuttlecraft.
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Old February 2 2009, 04:56 AM   #682
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

uniderth wrote: View Post
Also how long is your Enterprise. My Enterprise is 1100 feet. I scaled mine to fit the hanger deck and shuttlecraft.
I'll have to look it up, but I think the current length based on my 11 foot model studies is 944 feet long.

As for changing the size to match something... in the case of my work, everything is left at it's original size and put together to see if it fits. For example, this is the aft area study of the secondary hull...


This is based on planned dimensions, Warped9's shuttlecraft dimensions, Jefferies' hull compartments applied to the secondary hull and the gallery set from The Conscience of the King.

So far I haven't run into any conflicts, which leads me to believe Jefferies planned this out quite well.
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Old February 2 2009, 05:36 AM   #683
Praetor
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Jefferies did indeed seem to have this well thought out, and I am still breathlessly following your development of it, good sir.
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Old February 2 2009, 09:41 AM   #684
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I'll have to look it up, but I think the current length based on my 11 foot model studies is 944 feet long.
Now that is surprising.
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Old February 2 2009, 06:27 PM   #685
USS Mariner
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
I'll have to look it up, but I think the current length based on my 11 foot model studies is 944 feet long.
Now that is surprising.
Not really. Look at the math:

135 (the model's intended length, in inches) x 7 = 945

I'm at the computer lab right now, but IIRC my own CAD reconstructions, based upon Shaw's, MGagen's, and Alan Sinclair's work, I've almost always come closer to 945 than 947.

Frankly, I can't figure out how the hell 947 became the official figure, considering that it's two feet more than a perfect 1/84 scale for the model.
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Old February 2 2009, 07:40 PM   #686
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

So, what do we do with that extra two feet?
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Old February 2 2009, 09:15 PM   #687
BK613
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

USS Mariner wrote: View Post
Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
I'll have to look it up, but I think the current length based on my 11 foot model studies is 944 feet long.
Now that is surprising.
Not really. Look at the math:

135 (the model's intended length, in inches) x 7 = 945

I'm at the computer lab right now, but IIRC my own CAD reconstructions, based upon Shaw's, MGagen's, and Alan Sinclair's work, I've almost always come closer to 945 than 947.

Frankly, I can't figure out how the hell 947 became the official figure, considering that it's two feet more than a perfect 1/84 scale for the model.
One possibility:
72.25" (nacelle) + 60" (saucer) + 3" (estimated gap between nacelle and saucer) = 135.25"
135.25 x 7 = 946.75
Round to 947.
Note: I have never been able to find a actual plumbed measurement for that gap

Another possibility:
Math error. This was a design produced for a TV show before the age of pocket calculators and personal computers. The answer they came up with was good enough for what they were doing.
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Last edited by BK613; February 2 2009 at 09:48 PM.
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Old February 2 2009, 09:32 PM   #688
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

A lot of this comes from the fact that the models are assembled from a number of individual parts... those parts tend to match the original plans pretty nicely, but their final arrangement is a little off.

Oddly enough, using the same scaling for the 33 inch model we get an overall length of 936 feet. The parts are proportional to the 11 foot model, but their final arrangement is slightly different.

Jefferies' 947 foot length is based on his ideal placement of all the elements.
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Old February 2 2009, 09:53 PM   #689
Maurice
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Hey Shaw. One question about the hangar deck observation deck. I notice the profile of the space in your centerline cutaway doesn't match that in Jefferies drawing. Yours is symmetical, and his isn't. Is there a reason for this? Something related to the set plans perhaps?
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Old February 2 2009, 10:13 PM   #690
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

DS9Sega wrote: View Post
Hey Shaw. One question about the hangar deck observation deck. I notice the profile of the space in your centerline cutaway doesn't match that in Jefferies drawing. Yours is symmetical, and his isn't. Is there a reason for this? Something related to the set plans perhaps?
Actually, it was just one of those things where I ended up with two bays behind the hangar that were the full height of deck 16 and I thought that it would be interesting to have the other side of that back gallery look over those bays as well. They are there mainly as a place to sort cargo before moving it to storage or possibly for assembly and disassembly of equipment.

Odds are more would be happening in those bays to observe than the hangar, so I thought those windows would be a nice addition. But that was totally my idea as we never get to see any of that type of thing in the series.

But if we had, this is what it might have looked like...

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