RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,946
Posts: 5,479,594
Members: 25,056
Currently online: 640
Newest member: JeremiahJT

TrekToday headlines

USS Enterprise Press-Out And Build Manual
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

New QMx USS Reliant Model
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

Star Trek Thirty-Five Years On 35MM: A Retrospective
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

Trek Shirt And Hoodie
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

A Klingon Christmas Carol’s Last Season
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

Attack Wing Wave 10 Expansion Pack
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

New Star Trek Funko Pop! Vinyl Figures
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

QMx Mini Phaser Ornament
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Stewart as Neo-Nazi Skinhead
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Fandom > Fan Art

Fan Art Post your Trek fan art here, including hobby models and collectibles.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old February 12 2008, 01:24 PM   #16
therealfoxbat
Commander
 
therealfoxbat's Avatar
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Cary L. Brown said:
therealfoxbat said:I don't know if this will help, but in the DS9 episode "Trials And Tribble-ations" they actually came out and said the Constitution class has 21 decks...
That's not NECESSARILY a "show stopper" when doing something like this.

My perspective tends to be that a "deck" must be a contiguous, uninterrupted area. In my case, I often will have a "Deck14A" and a "Deck14B" to represent two areas on the same level but in entirely unjoined areas in that particular cross-section.

The question becomes... are those "two subsections of one deck" or are they two distinct decks? Honestly, I'd be more inclined to accept them as two distinct decks... I did it the way I've done it largely due to my desire to make my ships fit with established Trek Canon (tm).

That said... we've also seen ships described as having decks identified by numbers, or at other times the same ship decks are identified by letters. (For instance, the bridge is on Deck 1, but the two decks below that are called "B deck" and "C deck" more often than they're called "Deck Two" and "Deck 3.")

SO... another approach might be to have, for instance, the primary hull be by deck numbers and the secondary hull by deck LETTERS... thus giving you an even more clear manner of identifying which part of the ship you're talking about.

It's worth noting that David's drawing has 19 levels... but that there are two more levels in the primary hull which are disconnected from their "matching" levels in the secondary hull/dorsal, so technically this ship DOES have 21 decks as he's drawn it.

As Obi-wan would say... "From a certain point of view..."

Just trying to contribute what I can...

I would have done something like this myself, except for the fact that I ***SUCK*** at drawing...

I've done a considerable amount of measurement (exterior line schematics from various sources, mostly the Star Trek Encyclopedia) and math along a similar subject and a pattern emerged. Most Federation ships from the TOS period through the late TNG period seem to have a consistent average value for deck height...

If you accept the Constitution class at a length of 288.6 meters/947 feet (which the Star Trek Encyclopedia does, so I go with that), its overall height is 72.6 meters/238 feet. Remove the warp nacelles, and its deck height is 68.9 meters/226 feet, which is divided among 21 decks.

The Galaxy class has a listed height of 137.5 meters/451 feet, divided among 42 decks. (The warp nacelles do not extend above the highest deck or below the lowest one.)

The Sovereign class has a listed height of 83.5 meters/274 feet, with a deck height (minus the warp nacelles) of 78.6 meters/258 feet, divided among 24 decks.

This results in an average deck height of 3.281 meters for the Constitution, 3.274 meters for the Galaxy and 3.275 meters for the Sovereign. Obviously, there would have to be allowances for factors like hull curvature, so these figures would not be absolute. They do fit together pretty nicely, though...

The other Enterprise designs fit into this pattern just as neatly, if you assume that the Constitution Refit (TMP) class has 22 decks, the Excelsior class has 23 decks and the Ambassador class has 38 decks. However, there is nothing in the canon source material that either confirms or denies these assumptions.

Also, since I haven't done any interior vertical spacing, I'm not sure if these figures will perfectly match certain portions of the outline, or if some stuff (like the upper height of the secondary hull) would have to be tweaked to fit.

That's what I came up with. Feel free to use it if you like...
__________________
TASTE MY SQUIRRELLY WRATH!!!

I really DO have a squirrelly wrath, you know...
therealfoxbat is offline  
Old February 12 2008, 02:55 PM   #17
USS Jack Riley
Captain
 
Location: Cubicle Hell
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Yeah. The angled launch deck should have given that away. Like I said, I was just quickly glancing through the book waiting for something to update.

The good news is that I don't have to upload the picture now. We have it courtesy of Captain Robert April! :thumbsup:

__________________
"The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

"Question: How many Imagineers does it take to change a light bulb?
Imagineer's Answer: Does it have to have a light bulb?"
USS Jack Riley is offline  
Old February 12 2008, 05:41 PM   #18
aridas sofia
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Shaw said:


Damn... that looks familiar.

http://home.comcast.net/~aridas/Full-Overview.jpg

I pursued a similar course to that you have set for yourself, and believe it did -- and will again --bear out the contention that the Jefferies design was anything but poorly or haphazardly planned or quickly conceived. Rather, it exhibits an extraordinary amount of foresight and the keen planning of a man truly steeped in the engineering arts.

I look forward to seeing your ongoing efforts.
aridas sofia is offline  
Old February 13 2008, 12:02 AM   #19
Captain Robert April
Vice Admiral
 
Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

What'd really be helpful is to get a really good look at the original artwork, to see if Jefferies left any telltale pencil marks behind, to indicate how he marked off the decks.

And there is still the matter of just what he was basing the drawing off of, since it doesn't exactly match up with either model, or with the construction blueprints. It's sort of its own creature.

I'm reminded of the blind men trying to describe an elephant.
Captain Robert April is offline  
Old February 13 2008, 03:03 AM   #20
ancient
Vice Admiral
 
ancient's Avatar
 
Location: United States
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

There are a few problems with going with that sketch.

-The Windows get really interesting on the engine hull. There are two rows on one deck, others in really wierd positions.

-Fitting 430 people in there? Yeah...no.

-Saucer comes down to one deck thick at the rim, by the looks of it. Again, two rows of windows...one buried in the deck division.

I know Jefferies's ideas and what ended up on screen often conflicted. So, are you going purely on Jefferies and assuming 200 crew, etc, or are you doing a more series-based ship?

I've tried both ways. I just put the turbolift in the fricking back of the bridge, where it belonged on the Jefferies version. All the bridge 'gymnastics' started because the series conflicted with Jefferies's basic design theory once they started moving stuff around.
__________________
----------------------------
Time Travel was and will be confusing
ancient is offline  
Old February 13 2008, 03:08 AM   #21
aridas sofia
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

-Fitting 430 people in there? Yeah...no.
Yeah... yeah. Two-up, hot bunked, with 23rd century beds that make themselves like those we saw in TOS. Do that for 300 of the crew and you can easily fit them in there. Add some six-up bunk stations for temporary assignments, and you have lots of room to spare.
aridas sofia is offline  
Old February 13 2008, 03:15 AM   #22
ancient
Vice Admiral
 
ancient's Avatar
 
Location: United States
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Sure, sure. In other words, don't do it the way the series did it. (What was everyone doing in Kirk's quarters?...)
__________________
----------------------------
Time Travel was and will be confusing
ancient is offline  
Old February 13 2008, 03:16 AM   #23
Cary L. Brown
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Austin, Texas
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

ancient said:
Sure, sure. In other words, don't do it the way the series did it. (What was everyone doing in Kirk's quarters?...)
Well, it wasn't EVERYONE... Kirk was just "hot-bunking" with a few of the female crewmembers.
Cary L. Brown is offline  
Old February 13 2008, 03:49 AM   #24
aridas sofia
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

ancient said:
Sure, sure. In other words, don't do it the way the series did it. (What was everyone doing in Kirk's quarters?...)
I'm sorry... my memory is playing tricks on me. Just how many times did we see shifts change in TOS?

Obviously hot bunking would be limited to crewman, ensigns, and junior lieutenants. And perhaps some lieutenants.
aridas sofia is offline  
Old February 13 2008, 03:57 AM   #25
FalTorPan
Vice Admiral
 
FalTorPan's Avatar
 
Location: Out there... thataway.
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

aridas sofia said:
ancient said:
Sure, sure. In other words, don't do it the way the series did it. (What was everyone doing in Kirk's quarters?...)
I'm sorry... my memory is playing tricks on me. Just how many times did we see shifts change in TOS?

Obviously hot bunking would be limited to crewman, ensigns, and junior lieutenants. And perhaps some lieutenants.
Whose (non-guest) cabins did we actually see during TOS? The ones I can think of from off the top of my head include...

Kirk
Spock
McCoy
Scott
Uhura
Rand
Garrovick
__________________
Watch ASTRONUTS! Visit Trekplace! Check out my personal website!
FalTorPan is offline  
Old February 13 2008, 04:16 AM   #26
Shaw
Commodore
 
Shaw's Avatar
 
Location: Twin Cities
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

ancient said:
-The Windows get really interesting on the engine hull. There are two rows on one deck, others in really wierd positions.
If you are talking about the engineering deck, it is (I thought) well known that that deck is divided into two levels towards the outer edges of the hull (on one side there is a walkway overlooking main engineering and on the other is the Emergency Manual Monitor room also overlooking main engineering).


-Fitting 430 people in there? Yeah...no.
This is just me doing some very fast figures, so please bare with me.

I calculated the square footage of the officer's quarters at about 315 sqft. The largest circular deck has a square footage of about 136,572 sqft. If 80% of that deck was used for living space, that would be about 109,258 sqft.

How many of these single person quarters should fit in that area?

About 346... on just that one deck. But we know that there are living areas on multiple decks, that should be more than enough to handle 430 crew.

That is just me looking at the numbers (without attempting to fit these rooms together), but it sure looks fine from my perspective. And even better if enlisted and junior officers had to double up per quarters (why would they need office space?).
Shaw is offline  
Old February 13 2008, 05:04 AM   #27
therealfoxbat
Commander
 
therealfoxbat's Avatar
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

ancient said:
There are a few problems with going with that sketch.

-The Windows get really interesting on the engine hull. There are two rows on one deck, others in really weird positions.

-Fitting 430 people in there? Yeah...no.

-Saucer comes down to one deck thick at the rim, by the looks of it. Again, two rows of windows...one buried in the deck division.

I know Jefferies's ideas and what ended up on screen often conflicted. So, are you going purely on Jefferies and assuming 200 crew, etc, or are you doing a more series-based ship?

I've tried both ways. I just put the turbolift in the fricking back of the bridge, where it belonged on the Jefferies version. All the bridge 'gymnastics' started because the series conflicted with Jefferies's basic design theory once they started moving stuff around.

Fitting 430 people in the Constitution class should be no problem. Look at the first picture on this thread. The CVN-65 has a crew of well over 5,000 (Ship's Company 3,350 + Air Wing 2,480 = 5,830 according to the US Navy website at www.navy.mil).

The saucer hull is two decks thick at the rim. It narrows to one deck thick a little ways in from the rim before expanding as you go further into the center.

You're probably right about the ship's layout getting all hinky once production started. It's anything goes with these people. I live in Las Vegas. We have all kinds of laughs about how Dan Tanna and Con Air screwed with the geography around here...
__________________
TASTE MY SQUIRRELLY WRATH!!!

I really DO have a squirrelly wrath, you know...
therealfoxbat is offline  
Old February 13 2008, 05:18 AM   #28
Patrickivan
Fleet Captain
 
Patrickivan's Avatar
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

430 people over about 20 decks comes to about 21 people per deck if you spread it out. That's not very many people over a 21 level ship of this size. Probably during an 8 hour shift (just guessing), 1/3 are sleeping, 1/3 are off duty, and 1/3 are working. The most of the non-com crew are probably double bunked (or more like in ST TUC), so that uses the space very effectively. Off duty people are congregating in large recreation spaces. There's more then enough room on this ship- look at the little bridge at the top of the ship- it has a 6 to 9 people at any given time. Put 5 people in four little rooms per deck, and that's your 20 per deck right there. 5 people don't take up that much room...

I'm running off on a tangent here. There's more then enough room- enough said.
__________________
http://patrickivan.wordpress.com/page/2/

40 Years and ticking. Damn, that's too old fashioned.
40 years and still processing!
Patrickivan is offline  
Old February 13 2008, 07:01 AM   #29
ancient
Vice Admiral
 
ancient's Avatar
 
Location: United States
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

The CVN has a hell of a lot more volume than the ENT-TOS. When you get down to it, a lot of decks are in the neck. And the livable space consists of a saucer and cylinder that take up only 2/3 or so of the length.

Then you have 7-ft wide corridors everywhere, so slash your space by about 1/3. If you want any of the ship's space to be taken up by things other than living quarters, having any singles (as per canon) doesn't make sense. I've done a few versions of this myself, using the 1080 ft ship. I could fit maybe 280 people into deck 6 if I went 4 to a room. That's subtracting space for impulse drives, labs, computer components, those damn corridors, and turbolifts. And jefferies tubes. And so forth.

I personally like to stay as far away from the FJ BPs as possible, since the ship ends up looking more like a passenger liner than anything else.

Anyhoo, that's my 2c.

EDIT: I was tired last night. Fixed my typing flubs.
__________________
----------------------------
Time Travel was and will be confusing
ancient is offline  
Old February 13 2008, 07:35 AM   #30
Captain Robert April
Vice Admiral
 
Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Shaw said:
This is just me doing some very fast figures, so please bare with me.

I calculated the square footage of the officer's quarters at about 315 sqft. The largest circular deck has a square footage of about 136,572 sqft. If 80% of that deck was used for living space, that would be about 109,258 sqft.

How many of these single person quarters should fit in that area?

About 346... on just that one deck. But we know that there are living areas on multiple decks, that should be more than enough to handle 430 crew.

That is just me looking at the numbers (without attempting to fit these rooms together), but it sure looks fine from my perspective. And even better if enlisted and junior officers had to double up per quarters (why would they need office space?).
Wanna take a stab at setting up some quarters on Deck 7 of my deck plans? That's the one big issue that's been holding me up (well, that and losing my computer in the eviction).

Just leave room for some rec facilities (gym, theatre, bowling alley ).
Captain Robert April is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:58 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.