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Old March 4 2008, 01:04 AM   #166
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Redfern wrote: View Post
I imagine your diagrams presenting "known" areas of the vessel, but the regions where we can only speculate, you display large blank spaces with the words, "Here there be 'techno-babble'."

Sincerely,

Bill
I actually really like that idea!

And it's not ENTIRELY without precedent... unless you assume that the 1701-D really did have a gigantic mouse and a gigantic rubber duck aboard.
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Old March 4 2008, 03:16 AM   #167
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

On other thought to clear things up for my understanding: your attempt Shaw is to create deck plans based on TOS technology? I ask because i too have been designing my own deck plans (working mainly in the secondary hull). I have used some ideas postulated here, but also what I consider to be the only on screen evidence of an internal arrangement of a Constitution class ship, that famous colored diagram from IAMD Pt II.
In my own deck plans the Tube room does indeed fit in with the nacelles. Above the tube room is the reactor and from the reactor there are conduits to the nacelles. (I apologize if I unintenionally took this idea from anyone here). This is my own thought as to the workings of the ship. However, I am always open to reinterpretation. Thanks, and good luck with your work. Ill be following this thread with great enthusiasm, as I have Capt April's deck plans, and Aridas Connie work.
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Old March 4 2008, 04:49 AM   #168
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

You mean INfamous colored diagram from IAMD Pt II? I for one never liked Drexlers take on this, how's a turbolift shaft and a plasma conduit (assuming that's indeed what it is)suposed to both fit inside the connecting dorsal? This was just a lame attemp to 'canonise' a new set of blueprints IMHO! The classic Connie's should never be seen in such detail in 'official' sources, it takes too much of the magic and mystery out of the design and limits future possibillities. Isn't this, after all, the point of this thread, and why Shaw insists on keeping much of his plans undefined and open to interpretation?
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Old March 4 2008, 07:23 AM   #169
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Brannigan wrote: View Post
On other thought to clear things up for my understanding: your attempt Shaw is to create deck plans based on TOS technology? I ask because i too have been designing my own deck plans (working mainly in the secondary hull). I have used some ideas postulated here, but also what I consider to be the only on screen evidence of an internal arrangement of a Constitution class ship, that famous colored diagram from IAMD Pt II.
From what I can tell studying screen captures of that episode, the Defiant diagram is based on this cutaway. It is either a tracing of the major elements of that image (too time consuming in my opinion to be an option) or the original vector art work with fills removed. Here is my quick study comparison.

I really think that everyone's ideas are pretty much valid on this subject, and think they should all be explored.

TIN_MAN wrote:
The classic Connie's should never be seen in such detail in 'official' sources, it takes too much of the magic and mystery out of the design and limits future possibillities. Isn't this, after all, the point of this thread, and why Shaw insists on keeping much of his plans undefined and open to interpretation?
That pretty much covers my feelings on the subject.

Where I've found myself at this point is that I have gathered enough information and have a strong enough background in geometry to provide some accurately scaled plans of interior sets used in TOS. My main goal is to make that information available so that others will have the opportunity to explore their ideas on the subject. So more than creating an original work of it's own, I'm hoping that the basic elements will help others with expressing their ideas.

Now, that having been said... yes, I am exploring a few ideas of my own. Mainly starting with some of Jefferies diagrams and working forward from those. And after Cary brought it up, I have changed to using some of my initial 11 foot study diagrams as the basis for my current work rather than the study diagrams of Jefferies' original construction plans. But all of these constraints shouldn't effect the set elements for use by others... specially as each of the sets will be redrawn with scale information so that they can be incorporated into other people's visions of how the interior would be arranged.

I might even take a stab at seeing how this type of stuff would fit within the original 33 inch model at some later date. :thumbsup:

But like I said, I really hope that this will be useful for much more fertile imaginations than mine.
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Old March 4 2008, 09:58 AM   #170
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

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Old March 4 2008, 07:25 PM   #171
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Small additions...

I added a view of engineering looking aft to better illustrate the location of the emergency manual monitor room on the upper sub-deck. I figure that if the upper sub-deck is the engineering section's "A deck", then the main deck level would be "B deck".

I also took some time to look at the arrangement of the hanger deck facilities, specially with the idea of being able to support both a standard compliment of four shuttlecraft and an extended compliment of six. I figure that six could be reached by storing shuttlecraft on the main deck to allow for a rotation to the lower deck for service. Moving the shuttlecraft shouldn't be too hard a job for one person (using anti-grav units), but I would guess that two people would be a much more stable method.

The shuttlecraft illustrated are Warped9's 26 foot vehicle. This seems like the best balance between the full size exterior and full size interior seen on the show.


Well, it looks like I'm running out of room on this scratch sheet... I guess I'll have to start up a new one now.
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Old March 4 2008, 08:29 PM   #172
B.J.
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Minor peeve: It's hangar, not hanger.
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Old March 4 2008, 09:17 PM   #173
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

B.J. wrote: View Post
Minor peeve: It's hangar, not hanger.
If that is the type of response I get for sharing my scratch work, I guess that will be the last posting until I'm ready to show a final product. I don't get paid for this type of stuff and have precious little time to devote to it, so if I have to run my scratch work through a spell check before sharing, then there isn't much point in sharing as it only slows down the process.

Of course it would be easier to overlook (and even taken as helpful) if it had been pointed out by someone who had been actively contributing ideas, but not when it comes from someone's first post in a thread.

Sorry, this is a major peeve of mine.
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Old March 4 2008, 09:35 PM   #174
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Calm down. It's not as if he said "By the way, it's shit also."
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Old March 4 2008, 09:44 PM   #175
B.J.
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans


What does it matter if it was my first post or my 407th post in this thread? I see an error, I point it out. I'm only trying to help you catch it before it gets perpetuated throughout your hard work and therefore gets impossible to catch them all. I haven't posted up to this point because I didn't have anything constructive to say. I've tried deck plans of my own before, and I get too mired in the details to get anything done. Of course, because of that, I agree with your "black box" approach to certain areas. Other than that, sorry I caught you on a bad day.
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Old March 4 2008, 11:17 PM   #176
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Sometimes, smileys are your friend.
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Old March 4 2008, 11:26 PM   #177
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Now, a couple of notes, and these are primarily minor quibbles based upon gut instincts rather than any hard evidence, but 1) I still think you're making that tube assembly waaaaaaay too long (lobbing off a third would probably do wonders) and 2) unless all of the phaser and photon torpedo machinery is in the aft section of the deck with the fire control room, with the firing ports running underneath, I'd move the fire control room one deck up, with Auxiliary Control one level above that.

Mind you, I'm taking the same approach as I'd take diagramming out Iron Man's armor or Spidey's web shooters, which is not exactly an approach grounded in real world physics. More like what looks and feels right (which is probably a lot closer to the approach Jefferies and Roddenberry took in the first place).
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Old March 5 2008, 05:05 AM   #178
TIN_MAN
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I was just thinking about the various shipboard sets we saw in TOS, and Charlie/Kodos' quarters came to mind. These are very unlike the standard officers quarters and very oddly shaped, any idea how, or if, they fit into the overall design estetic?
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Old March 5 2008, 07:52 AM   #179
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Captain Robert April wrote:
Sometimes, smileys are your friend.
You're right about that ... I was rushed and tried to make a dramatic statement that I didn't think anyone would take seriously. I guess the inclusion of a few smileys would have been helpful seeing as tone is often lost in posting.

B.J. wrote:
I've tried deck plans of my own before, and I get too mired in the details to get anything done. Of course, because of that, I agree with your "black box" approach to certain areas.
It definitely helps in keeping the main goals on track.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't thinking about what might be in open areas. A bowling alley which can be converted into a dance hall for example. What would that look like and where might it go? I see the need for a number of briefing room size spaces as that room was redressed to fill a number of roles. And then there also needs to be a nearly two story high room about the size of the engine room that could serve as a space for a theater.

Then there is the other question... why did Kirk change cabins? His cabin was originally constructed with windows (and there are four areas on deck 5 for cabins like his). But later on that part of the set it was covered up, and the windows were avoided before that (most likely due to budget issues of putting in a star field).

Yes, it is easy to get caught up in the little details on something like this.

Captain Robert April wrote:
Now, a couple of notes, and these are primarily minor quibbles based upon gut instincts rather than any hard evidence, but 1) I still think you're making that tube assembly waaaaaaay too long (lobbing off a third would probably do wonders) and 2) unless all of the phaser and photon torpedo machinery is in the aft section of the deck with the fire control room, with the firing ports running underneath, I'd move the fire control room one deck up, with Auxiliary Control one level above that.
Well, my first instinct was to put auxiliary control on deck 6... in a protected area. But for these plans (which are more or less examples of what can be done with the set plans) I'm inclined to use the on screen references when ever they work out. And in the case of auxiliary control, it actually fits on deck 8.

And when forced to put auxiliary control there along with forward phaser control, it starts to make sense in an odd way. Maybe deck 8 is one of the decks that is set aside for housing other similar facilities. It might not be where I would have put it, but for these plans, if the on screen reference works I'm not going to argue it.

As for the tubes... that is still just a best guess based on plans which are most likely incomplete. That set piece was built at the beginning of the previous season, so I am doubtful that what we see on the page is much more than a stand-in for the piece. The final length will come from studies of shots of engineering in the first few episodes in which it was shown (as they were more likely to still have been setting up the camera around the forced perspective when it was effecting the budget, rather than later when it was a given that it was there). So the final depth will most likely be based on those findings rather than a pure study of the set plans.

On the subject of the tubes... I grabbed an early version of the engine room plans which I hadn't corrected for scale, but dropped in a scale measurement from the fixed versions of the plans... consequently the distance displayed on that first study illustration is off. It isn't 115 feet, it is more like around 57 feet. This didn't effect the scratch plans though as I just scaled the work to the pre-existing engineering set.

TIN_MAN wrote:
I was just thinking about the various shipboard sets we saw in TOS, and Charlie/Kodos' quarters came to mind. These are very unlike the standard officers quarters and very oddly shaped, any idea how, or if, they fit into the overall design estetic?
I'm using Charlies' as an example of an extended duration brig cell. I also have a shorter duration holding cell too, which actually sort of rounds out what one would need for a general security/holding area.

As for what we saw of Kodos' room, that might be a good example of a commons room for a multi-crewmen quarters. So the room we don't see may have had multiple berths and was where all of the Karidian Players were staying during the trip.
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Old March 5 2008, 06:30 PM   #180
therealfoxbat
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

B.J. wrote: View Post
Minor peeve: It's hangar, not hanger.
Considering the special effects budget of about a buck and a half per episode, the shuttlecraft probably spent most of its time dangling on fishing line from a hanger...
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