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Old June 17 2008, 06:54 PM   #556
Tallguy
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I'm looking at the two "free-standing" aft-most control cabs. I'm pretty sure that the aft walls of those would be cut by the hangar doors. I think I tried a similar arrangement in 3D many years ago. Also, they would be visible from the outside (and they're not).

Best of luck with this trickiest of areas.
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Old June 17 2008, 09:38 PM   #557
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Tallguy wrote: View Post
I'm looking at the two "free-standing" aft-most control cabs. I'm pretty sure that the aft walls of those would be cut by the hangar doors. I think I tried a similar arrangement in 3D many years ago. Also, they would be visible from the outside (and they're not).
Good points, and very likely true. I hadn't noticed until now.
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Old June 17 2008, 10:52 PM   #558
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Tallguy wrote: View Post
I'm looking at the two "free-standing" aft-most control cabs. I'm pretty sure that the aft walls of those would be cut by the hangar doors. I think I tried a similar arrangement in 3D many years ago. Also, they would be visible from the outside (and they're not).
Actually I have them set out as an "L" shape so that the shell doors stack up behind the aft half which makes them only visible from almost directly behind the ship (and otherwise hidden behind the shell doors).

The difficulty in the plans of deck 16a is that that detailing is obstructed by the outer hull of the ship curving in. I've included dotted lines to represent how I envision some of the hidden parts, but in the end I may have to provide a view without the outer hull so those details can be easily seen.

The mechanism for the doors themselves is something that I've also put a lot of thought into. The lead edges of each shell piece share the same track while the trailing edges pull inwards to follow a separate track. The importance of this is mainly when the doors are closed because it means that the air pressure inside helps maintain the seal (by pressing the trailing edge of each shell against the leading edge of the next one), and the doors wouldn't open easily unless the hangar deck has been de-pressurized significantly first (keeping someone from just opening the doors while people are working in there ).

I'll have to make a diagram to show you guys... right now this stuff is just a bunch of hand drawn sketches.
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Old June 18 2008, 01:17 AM   #559
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

The "control room" probably owes some influence to Doug Drexler, from that Enterprise Officer's Manual he worked on back when he was just one of us enthusiastic fans and not quite pro yet. I suppose a site-to-site transporter for a room up there is an option, but I'm not sure it'd be worth it.

As for pulling engine parts out through the hangar doors, I like that in general. There's also those markings on the underside of the hull that look suspiciously like access hatches (especially that big yellow circle with the red outline that looks particularly dangerous....warp core ejection port, anyone?).

This has got me rethinking the arrangement I have for the warp plasma transfer conduits and their path to the nacelles. I suppose I could angle them upward somewhat, opening up more deck space. Still no rationale for a curved corridor in that area, though.
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Old June 21 2008, 10:25 AM   #560
dseabroo
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Forgive me. I don't have the time to read through this entire forum in complete detail but I felt I had to post because David Shaw is a brilliant man! I have always hated Franz Joseph's design and believed that Matt Jefferies had a plan to the ship we never saw. Like you, I've been playing around since childhood to create a better design but I lack the skills you have.

I think your design is brilliant and I'm not saying I'm right, but here are some observations I've made during the years. If you like them feel free to incorporate them. If you hate them please try to be nice:

1. I have noticed that the main engineering set for the original series was usually only seen from one side. Now if you take the design and mirror it you will get a much larger engineering section that I always thought fit nicer. You will also now have two of those big conduits, one for each nacelle which leaves room in the center for you to add a verticle warp core.

2. On the engineering set on end of the room opposite to the big conduite thingie there are some stations and a doorway. The floor plan kind of comes to a "point". If you take the symetical engineering design from above, you will notice that this "point" kind of fits nicely into the secondary hull which starts to come to a point towards the area where the dish fit on.

3. Deck 12 on the engineering hull, just forward of neck, has a space that always seemed to me to fit the approximate shape of the auxiliary control room. Interesting, according your plans, this is the eighth deck COUNTING UP FROM THE BOTTOM!

Hopefully this make some sense. GOOD LUCK!

Last edited by dseabroo; June 21 2008 at 10:37 AM.
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Old June 21 2008, 02:29 PM   #561
FalTorPan
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

dseabroo wrote: View Post
1. I have noticed that the main engineering set for the original series was usually only seen from one side. Now if you take the design and mirror it you will get a much larger engineering section that I always thought fit nicer. You will also now have two of those big conduits, one for each nacelle which leaves room in the center for you to add a verticle warp core.
Of course, alternatively the "real" set might be mirrored about the longitudinal axis of the conduit thing. It all literally depends on where one draws the line.
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Old June 21 2008, 09:26 PM   #562
dseabroo
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I'm suggesting that the line is drawn the edge of the engineering set as we know it, creating two big long conduits with a space between them. One "feeding" each nacelle. I know that I am unique in this perspective, but after years of studying the engineering set I believe that the curved ceiling is more suggestive of the line of symmetry being drawn there than in the center of the of the conduit like it normally is. It also makes for a much different shaped, wider engineering that I found fit nicer into the center of the secondary hull than David Shaw's otherwise brilliant vision current does.
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Old June 22 2008, 04:45 AM   #563
Donny
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Engineering can't be doubled...we all know that there was a wall there, and on the other side of that wall, the next deck up, was the Emergency Manual Monitor room, which overlooked Engineering through a hexagonal mesh grating. Sorry, but doubling Engineering would be too un-canon. The room was featured in several episodes ("I, Mudd", "The Lights of Zetar", "Mirror, Mirror", and "The Tholian Web", perhaps among others).

However, it's a fine idea, just hampered by what we know to exist on the Enterprise.
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Old June 22 2008, 05:14 AM   #564
dseabroo
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

We know there was a room there, but we don't know that it was situated on a wall. Perhaps it was a bridge overhanging main engineering. Also, was the perspective out of that window canon? Afterall, we all know that the big long conduit was actually a small triangle yet we're willing to say it was a long corrodor no problem. Perhaps the room was supposed to be further back then it looked. Also in Day of the Dove we see an entity leaving through the bulkhead of the engine room and when we see it leaving the ship exterior it seems to be further forward than David Shaw's design. This didn't stop him from moving it back though. In my designs it was further forward.
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Old June 22 2008, 05:58 AM   #565
Donny
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

We also know that the access to the Emergency Manual Monitor was via a small room with a ladder located just off a corridor, as seen in "Mirror, Mirror".

I studied this setup for my Star Trek Mod. My analysis led to this conclusion of Engineering:
http://www.jkhub.net/project/screens...4ovd73oMbh.jpg

This fits nice into what we've seen on the show, and doesn't contradict anything on the show, except I've changed the ladderway access room slightly to fit in with the more important sets.

Of course, it's completely up to Shaw what he decided to put into his deck plans.
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Old June 22 2008, 07:30 AM   #566
dseabroo
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Very interesting model Donny. I'd love to see it rendered higher res. BTW where did you get the idea for the corridor at the top left?
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Old June 22 2008, 06:13 PM   #567
Donny
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Click on the link in my signature to view higher-res screenshots of my renders.

Go to these two threads if you'd like to carry the discussion further...Don't want to crowd up Shaw's thread.
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=1521621
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=48585
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Old June 23 2008, 07:01 PM   #568
asdf1
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Just wondering Shaw, how long do you reckon'll it'll take to complete them, how far along are they.
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Old June 27 2008, 01:44 AM   #569
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Thanks for the compliments... in the end part of this project is to make available the parts and pieces for others to bring forward their ideas, so it'll be great to eventually see a double sided engineering idea brought to life.

asdf1 wrote: View Post
Just wondering Shaw, how long do you reckon'll it'll take to complete them, how far along are they.
Not very far... the major part of this is making pieces for people to use and my layout ideas are mainly just a proof of concept for that.

I was hoping to have something usable by the anniversary of when I completed my work on the 33 inch Enterprise... but I don't think I'll make that date now. Maybe late August or early September.
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Old June 27 2008, 05:27 AM   #570
Wingsley
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Has anyone ever tried to extrapolate an "impulse deck" for the saucer based on Engineering?
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