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Old May 13 2008, 07:28 AM   #481
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Everyone was pissed. That pilot was also where Roddenberry, apparently as a demonstration that he was large and in charge, had the network guy, Harve Bennett (yes, that Harve Bennett) thrown off the set for no good reason.

Doncha just love irony sometimes?
That's a new one... where'd you get that tidbit of info? If it's really true... damn, that does put matters into perspective. You'd have to wonder if PPC chose Bennett to helm ST-II with that in mind?
It's in Inside Star Trek and that unauthorized Roddenberry bio.
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Old May 15 2008, 01:01 PM   #482
baxart
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Looking good Shaw!
So where did you decide to put security/brig?
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Old May 15 2008, 09:08 PM   #483
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Actually, I haven't.

The following locations still not set at this time:
  • Brig/Security
  • Transporter Room/Section
  • Arboretum
  • Ship's Chapel
  • Phaser Control
  • Gymnasium
  • Circular Briefing Room
By there general shape, I'm assuming that the circular briefing room and arboretum are along the center of the primary hull. And I'm leaning towards putting the circular briefing room on deck 2 and the arboretum on deck 4.

I'm considering putting phaser control on deck 8 just below and forward of the primary hull's main energizers (center of deck 7). This not only places the room near the visual location of the phaser banks, but also would let them use the main energizers as an alternate source of powering them.

In general I'm considering most of deck 8 as the primary alternative to the bridge. Auxiliary control is on the starboard side of the deck, but seems to only replicate a few bridge stations. So I've been thinking that there are most likely other rooms on that deck that replicate other bridge station functions as well (a communications room, environmental control room, etc.). During normal operations these rooms are manned with a handful of support crew who work under the direction of the person manning the bridge station for that area.

I have purposely avoided using the back two quadrants of ring 1 on deck 4, 5 and 6 because they seem like they would be rather nice for over sized rooms. So I've been considering locating the transporter section in one of those areas as the transporter room is deeper than most other rooms.


So that is my current thinking... which obviously isn't definite on many of the areas on that list.
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Old May 15 2008, 09:37 PM   #484
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Considering the set for the brig is right next to the entrance to the Engineering set, I'd say using the set layout as a guide is next to useless.
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Old May 16 2008, 02:14 PM   #485
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

In "The Doomsday Machine" when Scotty rigged up the single Phaser bank to fire, it would actually work out pretty well if the Phaser control room, Auxiliary control and energisers were on the same deck.

Decker, after evac-ing the crew, could have headed to Deck 8, sealed himself there and diverted life support to that deck since everything he needed was there.
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Old May 16 2008, 03:24 PM   #486
doctorwho 03
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
In "The Doomsday Machine" when Scotty rigged up the single Phaser bank to fire, it would actually work out pretty well if the Phaser control room, Auxiliary control and energisers were on the same deck.

Decker, after evac-ing the crew, could have headed to Deck 8, sealed himself there and diverted life support to that deck since everything he needed was there.
It's not stated right out which part of the Constellation Kirk and his party beam into. It seems generally assumed life support was still functioning throughout the sections not decimated by the anti-proton beam.
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Old May 16 2008, 11:02 PM   #487
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Well, Scotty and the damage control team have to climb down to get to Engineering, so there is that clue.
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Old May 17 2008, 02:07 PM   #488
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Which implies close proximity to the neck, and that even if life support was online the turbolifts weren't, and that one of the shafts was free to climb down. Assuming the lifts can't be shunted into an alcove at the nape of the neck in just such an emergency.
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Old May 17 2008, 04:29 PM   #489
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Actually I have been outlining non-turbolift movement throughout the ship, and someone (who doesn't visit the bridge) can move around quite freely without ever using a turbolift.

When I was attending classes at UCSD and again while at the U of M, I never used the elevators in the buildings of the math departments... I always used the stairs. And as I recall, both buildings were about six stories tall. Because I didn't use elevators for those years, I've attempted to limit their necessity on the Enterprise too.

There are three primary ways to move from deck to deck without elevators.
  1. Large Ladder Ways: LLWs are the three person ladders that pop up frequently throughout the series.
  2. Single Person Ladder: SPLs which are often seen in small alcoves off of corridors. These are more often used for access to inner parts of the deck rather than moving from deck to deck.
  3. Stair Wells: not all that different from what is common in most buildings today.
Stair Wells are rarely seen because they are primarily used for moving between decks 5 and 6 in ring 4 (which has no turbolift options). A majority of the compartments have at least two LLWs within them (in case the compartment is sealed off from the rest of the ship), and when these link two different compartments, there is about a 6 inch gap in the ladder for emergency doors to close.

While you can get from one deck to another with SPLs, their main purpose is to provide access to the spaces between the rooms and the corridors. In the plans you'll find that there is often about a 3 foot difference between the wall of a room and the wall of the corridor. I've assumed that this space is where most of the infrastructure for the ship can be found. And while there is wall access to some of it, the best way to access most of it is to crawl inside by using one of these SPLs.

I have made sure that LLWs connect all deck levels from deck 2 down to deck 19, so the only area of the ship which requires a turbolift is the bridge. For the bridge I have two specially designed (and rarely used) turbolifts which are stationed at special stops on deck 2 and 8. Most turbolifts are only slightly larger on the outside than their insides, mainly because the network is what powers them. These two special turbolifts are larger (taller) because they are self powered. Because of there size, they can't leave the main vertical shaft of the primary hull, and only four turbolift stations are able to handle them... deck 1 (the bridge), deck 2, deck 5 (near Sickbay) and deck 8 (near Auxiliary Control). They only become active if the turbolift network is shutdown because they are independent of the network and they also wouldn't follow the traffic rules that the other turbolifts do to avoid jams.

Moving through the dorsal should actually be pretty easy. I assume that the LLWs aren't at 1 g... more like one half. So if you weighed only half your weight, you could move from the lowest part of the ship to almost the highest very quickly without braking a sweat. The only issue would be that the dorsal is divided up into four compartments... and a pressure loss in any one might block off access between the two hulls. Because of this I've been considering making the LLWs independent of the compartments in the dorsal (which means I would need to add a secondary access between decks in each compartment... most likely using SPLs or the Jefferies Tube).

To get an idea of how I envision the turbolift and LLWs working their way through the dorsal, you can view this (very old now) diagram of the dorsal.
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Old May 17 2008, 05:58 PM   #490
aridas sofia
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Stair Wells: not all that different from what is common in most buildings today.
If I may make a suggestion, I'll point out the incredible inefficiency from a space utilization POV of the traditional stairway. Aboard ship, this is taken care of by instead using ship ladders. More akin to what gets you to the top of a sliding board, and needing (in one gee) handrails, a ship ladder also has the advantage of having been used on the engineering set in TOS/TAS.
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Old May 17 2008, 06:59 PM   #491
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

The main reason for using stair wells rather than more standard naval ladders is the absence of turbolifts on the outer ring. It is easier to work with stairs when carrying stuff than with ladders... and in the absence of other alternatives for getting things to and from the outer ring of deck 6, a solution that may take up as much as four times the same area of a ladder seems like a small price to pay for the convenience.

But yeah, anywhere else on the ship that at least has turbolift access, I would totally agree that the ladders you describe are a great option.



One of the conceptual aspects of the Enterprise that I think should be addressed is the artificial gravity. An artificial gravity system would have to transfer potential energy to all objects within it's range... and that energy has to come from somewhere.

So when I talk about areas of the ship with variable gravity, I'm also talking about energy conservation.

Onboard the ship, the anti-grav units would basically be designed to circulate the potential energy applied to an object back to the gravitational system. And areas of limited gravitation would require less energy than areas set to 1 g. While normal Earth like conditions would be the norm for most places around the ship, there are many times when neither the energy consumption nor the implied weight of certain objects are of any benefit.

If you are in space, why not use weightlessness to your advantage at any chance you get. For example, shuttlecraft become very manageable for one person when working at a small fraction of normal gravitational potential.



Of course I have been considering other options to stair wells... like a single lift per compartment that would act like a freight elevator. In that case other more standardized options (ie, stuff seen on screen in TOS) would work just fine for moving people between those decks.

And now that you bring it up, the combination of a freight lift and ladders like you suggest really does sound like it covers all the bases I was originally worried about in that ring.

Hmmm... I'll have to return to my earlier scenarios of life in that part of the ship to make sure that all the things I was worried about are covered using these options.
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Old May 24 2008, 10:08 PM   #492
LCARS 24
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I'm trying to put together a reasonable image based on this thread that I can use in my LCARS library. Here's what I've got so far:



This will be displayed, not in TOS style, but on an LCARS library page with labels, like this one for the 1701-B:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...r/ENTB-L24.png
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Old May 26 2008, 02:05 PM   #493
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

LCARS 24 wrote: View Post
I'm trying to put together a reasonable image based on this thread that I can use in my LCARS library. Here's what I've got so far...
That looks awesome! Thanks for posting it for us.
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Old May 28 2008, 11:59 AM   #494
LCARS 24
Commodore
 
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

On the LCARS library page I put 600,000 metric tons as the figure for mass, and 620,000 on the page for the 1701-A. Are those figures okay? I saw several Web sites that show 190,000 for the TOS Enterprise.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...er/1701-LC.png
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...er/EntA-LC.png
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Old May 28 2008, 02:03 PM   #495
Vance
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Unfortuntaely, the masses for ships given from TMP and onward are all based on a hyperbolic statement by Scotty taken far far too literally. ("A million tons of starship and we can't... etc...")

For the TOS Enterprise to actually mass that much, it would have to be a SOLID object of heavy alloys. 190,000 is far far more reasonable. A comparitive real-world structure, the USS Nimitz, weighs in at 101,196 tons fully loaded, while actually covering more volume. The extra 90K tons could be assumed to be denser frame and engine materials.
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