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Old May 5 2008, 07:50 AM   #466
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Well, one could come up with almost an endless series of arguments against anything in TOS... but in this case (and most of the deck references I plan on using), there are no direct contradictions with what was said and any other aspects of TOS.

To date the only deck level reference from TOS I'm considering dropping would be Rand's quarters being on deck 11. Otherwise, the show was surprisingly consistent with what they said. And in fact what I've been noticing is that the production team in TOS did a much better job than the later series at being consistent with the ship's internal arrangement.

At this point I'm starting to get the distinct feeling that the movies and later series are actually tarnishing the perceived production quality of TOS. And while the nearly two year lead in that Jefferies had on thinking through the arrangement of the Enterprise is massive compared to what nearly any of the later series had, the consistency of much of TOS lasted through all the seasons. And yes an argument can be made that with just short of three seasons, TOS didn't have a lot of itself to trip over, it has to be remembered that TOS existed in the era of Lost in Space, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea and other SciFi series that didn't consider consistency to be an important factor.
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Old May 5 2008, 08:56 PM   #467
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Another factor to keep in mind when thinking about Star Trek's preproduction period is that Jefferies had a lot more to worry about than just the innards of the Enterprise.

I suspect that the process was sort of stop-n-start in the preproduction phase, since we first had the pilot, so some general work was done to get everything to an acceptable level at the pilot stage, then the waiting for the decision from the network, during which probably little to nothing was done (remember, most pilots never even see the light of day, even those few that actually sell, and especially back on those days, so why waste time working on the thing until you know the network's actually gonna buy the thing?), then we had the unpredented second pilot order, which enabled everyone to build upon what came before, then another down period while waiting to see if the show was gonna sell this time, then full blown preproduction from late '65 through early '66 to try and flesh things out to a point where they could live with it, with the understanding that, like any other show, it's still a work in progress (a nice way of saying they were making it up as they went along).

As stated, we're talking the era of Irwin Allen, so the consistency bar was set pretty low to begin with. Any level of consistency was noteworthy, and the fact that Star Trek holds up as well as it does after all this time is nothing short of miraculous.
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Old May 10 2008, 06:23 AM   #468
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Okay, this isn't exactly anything that is anywhere close to complete (and the size also doesn't make it all that readable either), but I thought I would share it anyways just to let you guys know I haven't forgotten about this project.

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Old May 10 2008, 07:07 AM   #469
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Another factor to keep in mind when thinking about Star Trek's preproduction period is that Jefferies had a lot more to worry about than just the innards of the Enterprise.

I suspect that the process was sort of stop-n-start in the preproduction phase, since we first had the pilot, so some general work was done to get everything to an acceptable level at the pilot stage, then the waiting for the decision from the network, during which probably little to nothing was done (remember, most pilots never even see the light of day, even those few that actually sell, and especially back on those days, so why waste time working on the thing until you know the network's actually gonna buy the thing?), then we had the unpredented second pilot order, which enabled everyone to build upon what came before, then another down period while waiting to see if the show was gonna sell this time, then full blown preproduction from late '65 through early '66 to try and flesh things out to a point where they could live with it, with the understanding that, like any other show, it's still a work in progress (a nice way of saying they were making it up as they went along).

As stated, we're talking the era of Irwin Allen, so the consistency bar was set pretty low to begin with. Any level of consistency was noteworthy, and the fact that Star Trek holds up as well as it does after all this time is nothing short of miraculous.
Another factor everyone forgets: Star Trek wasn't the only pilot they were working on, Roddenberry included. "The Long Hunt of April Savage" and "Police Story" are two examples of other pilots that Roddenberry produced during that same period, in case Star Trek didn't sell.
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Old May 10 2008, 08:33 AM   #470
number6
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Another factor to keep in mind when thinking about Star Trek's preproduction period is that Jefferies had a lot more to worry about than just the innards of the Enterprise.

I suspect that the process was sort of stop-n-start in the preproduction phase, since we first had the pilot, so some general work was done to get everything to an acceptable level at the pilot stage, then the waiting for the decision from the network, during which probably little to nothing was done (remember, most pilots never even see the light of day, even those few that actually sell, and especially back on those days, so why waste time working on the thing until you know the network's actually gonna buy the thing?), then we had the unpredented second pilot order, which enabled everyone to build upon what came before, then another down period while waiting to see if the show was gonna sell this time, then full blown preproduction from late '65 through early '66 to try and flesh things out to a point where they could live with it, with the understanding that, like any other show, it's still a work in progress (a nice way of saying they were making it up as they went along).

As stated, we're talking the era of Irwin Allen, so the consistency bar was set pretty low to begin with. Any level of consistency was noteworthy, and the fact that Star Trek holds up as well as it does after all this time is nothing short of miraculous.
Another factor everyone forgets: Star Trek wasn't the only pilot they were working on, Roddenberry included. "The Long Hunt of April Savage" and "Police Story" are two examples of other pilots that Roddenberry produced during that same period, in case Star Trek didn't sell.
Actually April Savage was produced during Season 3 of TOS, according to Inside Star Trek anyway.
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Old May 10 2008, 01:34 PM   #471
Bernard Guignard
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Thanks Shaw for all the great work.
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Old May 10 2008, 09:27 PM   #472
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Actually April Savage was produced during Season 3 of TOS, according to Inside Star Trek anyway.
I'll have to check that out, but my impression was that it was before the first season got underway (I seem to recall Matt Jefferies being given a choice between Savage and Star Trek, and he picked Star Trek).
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Old May 10 2008, 10:14 PM   #473
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Bernard Guignard wrote: View Post
Thanks Shaw for all the great work.
Thanks!


It should be pointed out that what I was alluding to before was the fact that Jefferies had a lot of time to think about this subject.

And if my experiences here are any measure, if I were Jefferies, I would have had a pretty clear view of how the Enterprise was laid out within a couple months. As it stands right now, I have a very good mental image of what the inside of the Enterprise looks like, where many of the different places we saw on screen would be and how to move around within the ship to get from place to place.

Jefferies most likely had a similar mental image of the interior of the Enterprise (though most likely not the exact same image as I have), and for what he needed for Star Trek, that was more than enough. He didn't feel any compulsion to share that vision with others beyond what was needed for the production of the show, so other than hints of these ideas, we don't have much else.

I, on the other hand, am attempting to share my mental image with others... which in turn requires putting this into a form that communicates a ton of little details. Putting all those little details down on the page is certainly a lot harder than just having them as part of a complete mental image of the Enterprise. But in the end I'm hoping that everyone here will have the same ability to sit down, close your eyes and explore this version of the Enterprise (in the same way that I'm sure most of us can still do with the Joseph's version).

... And one should remember that Jefferies was getting paid (for at least some of his efforts), while I'm doing this in my spare time. I would guess that a majority of his mental image of the interior was set within weeks of the final resizing of the Enterprise.
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Old May 10 2008, 10:27 PM   #474
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Depends on how full his inbasket was at the time.
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Old May 11 2008, 09:59 AM   #475
number6
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Actually April Savage was produced during Season 3 of TOS, according to Inside Star Trek anyway.
I'll have to check that out, but my impression was that it was before the first season got underway (I seem to recall Matt Jefferies being given a choice between Savage and Star Trek, and he picked Star Trek).
I did check it out and I was mistaken. The April Savage pilot was filmed before the first season. Duh. My bad.
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Old May 11 2008, 09:30 PM   #476
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

The fall of '65. They were finding stuff for Roddenberry to do while waiting for word on whether NBC was gonna buy Star Trek, after the second pilot.
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Old May 11 2008, 11:16 PM   #477
number6
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
The fall of '65. They were finding stuff for Roddenberry to do while waiting for word on whether NBC was gonna buy Star Trek, after the second pilot.
As I said, i went back and checked it out. Interestingly enough, Solow was kinda pissed about how GR phoned it in.
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Old May 13 2008, 03:42 AM   #478
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Everyone was pissed. That pilot was also where Roddenberry, apparently as a demonstration that he was large and in charge, had the network guy, Harve Bennett (yes, that Harve Bennett) thrown off the set for no good reason.

Doncha just love irony sometimes?
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Old May 13 2008, 04:43 AM   #479
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Everyone was pissed. That pilot was also where Roddenberry, apparently as a demonstration that he was large and in charge, had the network guy, Harve Bennett (yes, that Harve Bennett) thrown off the set for no good reason.

Doncha just love irony sometimes?
That's a new one... where'd you get that tidbit of info? If it's really true... damn, that does put matters into perspective. You'd have to wonder if PPC chose Bennett to helm ST-II with that in mind?
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Old May 13 2008, 06:53 AM   #480
number6
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Everyone was pissed. That pilot was also where Roddenberry, apparently as a demonstration that he was large and in charge, had the network guy, Harve Bennett (yes, that Harve Bennett) thrown off the set for no good reason.

Doncha just love irony sometimes?
Irony is just so....so.... so.. ironic.
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