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Old March 20 2008, 10:43 PM   #301
U.S.S. Republic
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

As for the second question, I don't consider those details on such a small diagram to have much weight when those types of details were completely ignored by Jefferies on a much larger diagram where those types of details would have been much easier to both draw and read. I consider those details to be there to illustrate size to the writers in the same way that some of the details I had in my early cross section views actually had no baring on how I planned the later deck layouts.


Still looking to see how this turns out nonetheless.
I like the idea of the 2 engineering rooms; 1 at each end.
That just, well... makes sense really.

As for the rest, perhaps someone will take up the challenge after your toolkit is completed just to see how things might layout according to the series cross-section.

I do applaud the use of the hull pressure diagram.
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Old March 20 2008, 11:20 PM   #302
Irishman
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Location: Charlotte, NC
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Wingsley wrote: View Post
You took my words to be absolutely literal in their meaning.

I was putting forth a hypothetical scenario of what the history of the Constellation and her sisterships could look like if you apply this kind of evolving star ship concept to show how Decker's ship and others of pre-NCC-17xy registry could still *look like* the TOS Enterprise, and yet be older and have subtle differences.
It requires less work of the reader if the writer says what he/she means

That said, why does the Constellation have to be older?
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Old March 21 2008, 02:16 AM   #303
EliyahuQeoni
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Irishman wrote: View Post

That said, why does the Constellation have to be older?
I think its a natural assumption since her registry number is lower than that of the Enterprise. For her to be newer than the Enterprise you'd have to assume a non-sequential registry system.
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Old March 21 2008, 02:43 AM   #304
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

The contours of the AMT model are also a little clunkier than the 11 foot filming model, so it makes sense to attribute those lines to a slightly older ship.
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Old March 21 2008, 03:21 AM   #305
Wingsley
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I agree with EliyahuQeoni.

Now, let me ask another question:

Why do we, as longtime viewers of STAR TREK, automatically assume that just because the Enterprise's sister-starships look the same (or similar) to the Enterprise, that they were all launched as Constitution-class starships? Maybe some of them were launched before the Constitution-class spec was completed or even drafted.

At the time I wrote my earlier piece (which caused the misunderstanding) I referred to Aridas' "Star Ships" thread. At the time, I did not have the thread in front of me. I want to thank Aridas from posting a link.

For some reason, we look upon the Constitution-class and suppose that Constitution was the first starship to launch out of spacedock with that shape. We assume earlier starship classes were not as advanced, and so we expect them to be based on very different designs. (Witness the Bonaventure from TAS, or the mysterious Daedalus) Therefore if we assume that NCC registries are sequential and if we therefore assume that the Constellation had to be refit/rebuilt from some earlier class in order to become a formidable, modern starship as one of the NCC-1701 Enterprise's contemporaries in "The Doomsday Machine", we're left with a little quandary. Daedalus is much too small and Bonventure is shaped far differently than the Constellation Kirk pilots into the mouth of the Planet Killer. How do you refit/rebuild such a radically different design to even remotely resemble a Constitution-class vessel?

Answer: it can't be done, and it wasn't done. When I looked at Aridas' ingenious drawings in his "Star Ships" thread, I realized that if Constellation were launched long before the Constitution-class was even on the drawing board, the structure and shape of what would someday evolve into the Constitution may have possessed far greater similarity to the familiar TOS-era design than either Daedalus or Bonaventure.

As I said, I did not have Aridas' "Star Ships" thread in front of me when I posted my design-lineage hypothesis in this thread. I made up the class names (I kinda like "Magna Carta" of "Charter of Liberties", BTW) to make a point. Regardless of the specifics, I think it is reasonable to question the design lineage of the shape we all recognize as the Constitution-class starship, particularly if it is accepted as reasonable to question whether NCC numbers as sequential or not.

Perhaps the Constitution class started with NCC-1700, perhaps not. Maybe ships such as the Intrepid and Exeter, whose NCCs are in the 1600s, were of an earlier class, and the Republic, whose NCC was 1371, was of an even earlier class than that. And 1017 Constellation would be of an even earlier class, perhaps predating Constitution by decades. What I saw in Aridas' thread suggested (to me) that Constellation could have launched as part of a much earlier class based on a design lineage that later evolved into the Constitution-class.
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Old March 21 2008, 03:46 AM   #306
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Seems like you're using about three times the number of words to say the exact same thing I am.

I'll say this: If I were in charge of this thing, and the need for a Daedelus class ship to show up on screen arose, I wouldn't use that spherical hulled reject that's been paraded around for the past several years.

I'd stick a secondary hull on an NX class and work it from there.


Last edited by Captain Robert April; March 21 2008 at 03:50 AM. Reason: Expanding a thought
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Old March 21 2008, 12:44 PM   #307
Bernard Guignard
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Seems like you're using about three times the number of words to say the exact same thing I am.

I'll say this: If I were in charge of this thing, and the need for a Daedelus class ship to show up on screen arose, I wouldn't use that spherical hulled reject that's been paraded around for the past several years.

I'd stick a secondary hull on an NX class and work it from there.


Isn't that what Bethesda did for one of thier ship designs in the latest gameShaw your doing some great work there Keep it up looking forward to what you have to show Us next (thumbsup)
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Old March 23 2008, 05:47 AM   #308
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Y'know, now that I have a working scanner at my disposal, I should work up some sketches of my idea of a Daedelus class ship....
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Old March 24 2008, 11:58 PM   #309
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

That is, unless someone has something else in mind....
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Old March 25 2008, 08:24 PM   #310
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Y'know, now that I have a working scanner at my disposal, I should work up some sketches of my idea of a Daedelus class ship....
I think it sounds great... and I'm glad that you are putting together a productive computer system now too.

_____________

If people are wondering, I've slowed down on this project because I need to finish up projects for clients first (to pay bills and all that stuff), but I threw together this example of one pressure hull compartment...


The basic idea is that each of these could be constructed on their own and then brought to the assembly site. And if they could be constructed on their own, there isn't any reason that they shouldn't be designed on their own too. So part of how I plan on approaching this is (for the primary hull at least) to layout each of the compartments on their own (using those plans for more detailed views) and then assemble them for a larger (less detailed) overview of the deck levels.

Anyways, sorry for the slow down... but real world concerns come first.
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Old March 26 2008, 04:36 AM   #311
doctorwho 03
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Much like how the International Space Station is being built. All the individual sections constructed on Earth and then launched into space and assembled together there. This idea could very well be what the Star Trek XI teaser was showing us.

Nice work. Just don't take too long with real world matters. I'm anxious to see this project finished.
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Old March 26 2008, 05:07 AM   #312
Vance
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I think its a natural assumption since her registry number is lower than that of the Enterprise. For her to be newer than the Enterprise you'd have to assume a non-sequential registry system.
Well, given everything we see, we can only conclude that the registry system is overall just sequential, with a range of randomness in any given era. The 1017 may actually be older than 1700, for instance, or it could be that the 1017 hadn't actually been assigned yet, and Nogura (or his predecessor) decided that it would be a good 'filler' number sometime after the 1700 was built.
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Old March 26 2008, 11:31 PM   #313
Captain Robert April
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Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

The randomness probably a feature of the fact that humans are still involved in the process.
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Old March 29 2008, 06:11 AM   #314
Captain Robert April
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Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

This just in: Generalissimo Francisco Franco, fascist dictator of Spain since the 1930's, is still dead. More on this story as it develops.
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Old March 29 2008, 06:31 AM   #315
therealfoxbat
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
This just in: Generalissimo Francisco Franco, fascist dictator of Spain since the 1930's, is still dead. More on this story as it develops.
WHAT???!!!

Franco's DEAD???!!!

WHY DOESN'T ANYBODY EVER TELL US THIS STUFF???!!!

On another note, I have good news and bad news...

The bad news is Vincent Price is also still dead...

The good news is he's Vincent Price, so he's still giving interviews...
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