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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old January 18 2008, 11:22 PM   #1
Roxana
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Location: Bristol, UK
I don't want Star Trek XI without the Shat

I've been thinking about Star Trek XI lately.

(FYI I am a TOS fan)

I'm increasingly unhappy at the thought of XI without Shat, but with Leonard Nimoy. I don't know well the TNG/VOY/DS9/ENT storylines, but this film is going to be based on TOS. Shatner was such a brilliant Kirk, I'm bemused as to how anyone else could fill his shoes. Personally, I don't believe that Star Trek could have survived 40+ years without his wonderful acting of a flawed, but essentially good, human being. The whole pivot of Star Trek rests on him.

Do I talk sense, or am I just a rabid Shat fan? I don't believe the latter, as I know his flaws. But Star Trek doesn't feel right without the Shat to me. (And he is still alive and still a functioning actor, for heaven's sake).
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Old January 18 2008, 11:24 PM   #2
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Re: I don't want Star Trek XI without the Shat

Tough noogies. Suck it up, 'cause here comes Shatner-less Star Trek.
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Old January 18 2008, 11:26 PM   #3
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Re: I don't want Star Trek XI without the Shat

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Old January 18 2008, 11:26 PM   #4
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Re: I don't want Star Trek XI without the Shat

It has already been explained by Abrams himself. Kirk died in Generations, and there is obviously a story element that takes place in a post-Generations timeline (thus the casting of Nimoy as "Old Spock") so there was no way to work "Old Kirk" into the story. You can thank Berman for that one.

And IMO, Trek never rested solely on Kirk. The Original Series was always about the dynamic between Kirk, Spock and McCoy, and the underlying theme being the story about the "human adventure" that just happens to take place in outer space.
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Old January 18 2008, 11:27 PM   #5
Roxana
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Re: I don't want Star Trek XI without the Shat

Tough noogies... is that a US term?

I know what you're saying, but I think there's something wrong. My maxim at work is "what would Kirk do" but I can't imagine a Kirk, without a Shat. Some rookie actor has a hard task to fill Shat's shoes. He's been the icon for 40 years, after all (Spock a little different, maybe because his personality was bland).
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Old January 18 2008, 11:30 PM   #6
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Re: I don't want Star Trek XI without the Shat

Well, being that the story is about a 20-something Kirk, I don't think CGI or Hollywood makeup has progressed to the point where Shatner can look like he did in the 60's again... :-p

Maybe this movie should have been a fully CGI film by Dreamworks or Pixar. We could have seen younger versions of the classic characters with complete accuracy.
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Old January 18 2008, 11:32 PM   #7
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Re: I don't want Star Trek XI without the Shat

If we are very lucky, Chris Pine will give us a Kirk we can get on board with... one that has the familiar Kirk swagger and humor and intensity. I actually hope he lifts a few of Shatner's "bits" for use in his portrayal... although I have a hard time imagining anyone doing Shat's... staggered... vocal... delivery, without it sounding like parody.

I'm almost 43 years old. I too loved William Shatner as Kirk. He was my hero from the earliest time I can remember. But I also love Trek and want to see it survive and indeed flourish again... and as I said regarding Shatner in another thread on this topic:

"Too old, too fat, too late, no Shat."

Shatner in this film would be all about the nostaliga, and that's not what Trek needs right now.

Yes, tough noogies is, I guess, an Americanism. It means the same thing as "tough shit," which is: that's how it is so you'd better get used to it. It's a gently-mocking statement of false sympathy/empathy.
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Old January 18 2008, 11:33 PM   #8
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Re: I don't want Star Trek XI without the Shat


"Rabid Shatner fan". Concentrate on seeing a "Trek" film rather than a "Kirk" film and you may enjoy it despite yourself.
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Old January 18 2008, 11:34 PM   #9
Roxana
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Re: I don't want Star Trek XI without the Shat

Yes, or they could use Alvin and the Chipmunks.

I'm a persuaded Shat-lover, I used to think he was over blown and hammy. But the more I watch, the more I think Shat WAS Trek. More so than my idol Leonard Nimoy. Anyone can be Spock, but only Shat can be Kirk IMO.
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Old January 18 2008, 11:37 PM   #10
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Re: I don't want Star Trek XI without the Shat

Roxana said:
But the more I watch, the more I think Shat WAS Trek.
Then you missed the entire point of what Star Trek was about.


IMO.
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Old January 18 2008, 11:37 PM   #11
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Re: I don't want Star Trek XI without the Shat

I would rather none of the old cast be in it, Nimoy included.
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Old January 18 2008, 11:38 PM   #12
Roxana
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Re: I don't want Star Trek XI without the Shat

Uss Stardis said:

"Rabid Shatner fan". Concentrate on seeing a "Trek" film rather than a "Kirk" film and you may enjoy it despite yourself.
I've been a Trek fan for many years. It's only lately, that I realised how integral Shat was to the whole initiative. Of course I will see XI and bring my family and friends kicking and screaming. But it won't be... real... without the Shat...(dramatic pauses intentional)

"Tough shit" - us Brits know that phrase!
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Old January 18 2008, 11:40 PM   #13
Roxana
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Re: I don't want Star Trek XI without the Shat

Stone_Cold_Sisko said:
I would rather none of the old cast be in it, Nimoy included.
I agree, I'd rather none of the original cast, than just Nimoy wheeled out. To take my thoughts further, Kirk and Spock was fuelled by the Shat/Nimoy dynamic: just having Nimoy won't work. (I haven't seen any post-TOS/TAS/films Star Trek though, being an original series fan)
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Old January 19 2008, 12:15 AM   #14
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Re: I don't want Star Trek XI without the Shat

Roxana said:
I've been thinking about Star Trek XI lately.

(FYI I am a TOS fan)

I'm increasingly unhappy at the thought of XI without Shat, but with Leonard Nimoy. I don't know well the TNG/VOY/DS9/ENT storylines, but this film is going to be based on TOS. Shatner was such a brilliant Kirk, I'm bemused as to how anyone else could fill his shoes. Personally, I don't believe that Star Trek could have survived 40+ years without his wonderful acting of a flawed, but essentially good, human being. The whole pivot of Star Trek rests on him.

Do I talk sense, or am I just a rabid Shat fan? I don't believe the latter, as I know his flaws. But Star Trek doesn't feel right without the Shat to me. (And he is still alive and still a functioning actor, for heaven's sake).
As a TOS fan (saw it first run in the 1960ies); I could CARE LESS whether or not William Shatner is in the film. I LOVED his performance on TOS and throughout the Movie-era; but I'd RATHER see a good story and an engaging film before anything else (and the last few Star Trek films HAVE been rather lacking in that sense). If they can give Shatner a part (doubtful given the continuing WGA writer's strike and the fact the script was finalized and locked in a month before the WGA went out on strike) that FITS well within the story - great. If not, keep him out of it.

The film WIIL have the characters of 'Captain Kirk', 'Mr. Spock', 'Dr. McCoy'; the NCC 1701; etc. <--- These things are what make up 'Star Trek', and they will be a part of the film. I honestly don't care if William Shatner has a role as 'Old Kirk' or not.

YMMV.
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Old January 19 2008, 12:23 AM   #15
Roxana
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Location: Bristol, UK
Re: I don't want Star Trek XI without the Shat

Noname Given said:
Roxana said:
I've been thinking about Star Trek XI lately.

(FYI I am a TOS fan)

I'm increasingly unhappy at the thought of XI without Shat, but with Leonard Nimoy. I don't know well the TNG/VOY/DS9/ENT storylines, but this film is going to be based on TOS. Shatner was such a brilliant Kirk, I'm bemused as to how anyone else could fill his shoes. Personally, I don't believe that Star Trek could have survived 40+ years without his wonderful acting of a flawed, but essentially good, human being. The whole pivot of Star Trek rests on him.

Do I talk sense, or am I just a rabid Shat fan? I don't believe the latter, as I know his flaws. But Star Trek doesn't feel right without the Shat to me. (And he is still alive and still a functioning actor, for heaven's sake).
As a TOS fan (saw it first run in the 1960ies); I could CARE LESS whether or not William Shatner is in the film. I LOVED his performance on TOS and throughout the Movie-era; but I'd RATHER see a good story and an engaging film before anything else (and the last few Star Trek films HAVE been rather lacking in that sense). If they can give Shatner a part (doubtful given the continuing WGA writer's strike and the fact the script was finalized and locked in a month before the WGA went out on strike) that FITS well within the story - great. If not, keep him out of it.

The film WIIL have the characters of 'Captain Kirk', 'Mr. Spock', 'Dr. McCoy'; the NCC 1701; etc. <--- These things are what make up 'Star Trek', and they will be a part of the film. I honestly don't care if William Shatner has a role as 'Old Kirk' or not.

YMMV.
I may be dissing the new actors before I've seen them, I admit. But am I alone in thinking Shat IS Kirk? I mean, he just is it. How can someone who's not dealt with 60s budget limitations and bad special effects and the politics of that time, translate it to 200+ society? Star Trek is about society which is why a new Kirk worries me. Shat would, at least, understand these issues (and Nimoy too: but Spock and the others are easier parts to play).

ETA: 60s, not 50s. Sorry. We're not talking about Asimov here.
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