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Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old January 21 2008, 12:17 AM   #61
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Teaser a Slight to Kirk?

Brutal Strudel said:
Pointing out shallow hypocrisy on the part of the Shat bashers by illustrating a double standard is most logical.
Actually,it's not. It's just more playground stuff - usually referred to as "You're Another!"
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Old January 21 2008, 01:10 AM   #62
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Re: Teaser a Slight to Kirk?

Therin of Andor said:
JoeZhang said:
Bear in mind for the rest of the world it's "boston what?"
You think the rest of the world is ignorant of US legal shows?
I didn't actually comment on US Legal shows in general, I commented on one specific show, so it's a bit naughty of you to phrase your question like that. Here in the UK, Boston legal pulls down an audience of about 100,000 - 150,000 people and is shown at weird hours by one of the minor channels - I wouldn't even class that as cult viewing. Now if you were talking about Alley McBeal...

It seems to be pretty much the same in spanish and french speaking countries (from what I watch).
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Old January 21 2008, 04:17 AM   #63
Brutal Strudel
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Re: Teaser a Slight to Kirk?

Starship Polaris said:
Brutal Strudel said:
Pointing out shallow hypocrisy on the part of the Shat bashers by illustrating a double standard is most logical.
Actually,it's not. It's just more playground stuff - usually referred to as "You're Another!"
You know, of late, I've been trying to show you respect and the benefit of the doubt but this tears it. HOW DARE YOU play holier than thou when you just opened a thread (promptly closed) obviously intended to point out how "unfit" Shatner is to play the part? Jesus Christ, Dennis, I remember the tissue thin arguments you made when I pointed out that

A. Flag officers often tend to the portly in RL and
B. Fans noted as early as 1982 that Nimoy was visibly too old to play a long lived Vulcan

and now you pull this "I'm so much more enlightened than you" shit? This weaselly "if I pitch my schoolyard taunts at a high enough level of pseudo-intellectual deniability, no one can call me on it" horseshit?

Cary was right. You, sir, are a mendacious lightweight.

Mods, I'll kindly take my warning now.
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Old January 21 2008, 04:20 AM   #64
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Re: Teaser a Slight to Kirk?

Brutal Strudel said:
Cary was right. You, sir, are a mendacious lightweight.

Mods, I'll kindly take my warning now.
Speaking of lightweight, if you are going to suck it up and take the warning, you might as well say something a lot stonger than that! Come on, man! The Klingons are watching.
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Old January 21 2008, 04:22 AM   #65
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Re: Teaser a Slight to Kirk?

You know, I don't think it's a slight to Kirk for the teaser to feature Nimoy, since: (a) Nimoy is in the film and (b) nobody has seen Pine as Kirk. Why would they have Pine do it?

It's logical (allusion to Spock and Vulcans intended) to do have Nimoy do the teaser for that reason. It is also quite logical, though not necessary, to have Pine do the standard Kirk voiceover @ the end of the actual film, which I would bet 500 quatloos may well be what they have in mind.
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Old January 21 2008, 04:23 AM   #66
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Re: Teaser a Slight to Kirk?

I have to admit, that's the classiest flame I've seen in a long while. Vulgarity these days is just so, well... vulgar. It's obvious, it's mundane, it's boring.

JoeZhang said:
I didn't actually comment on US Legal shows in general, I commented on one specific show, so it's a bit naughty of you to phrase your question like that. Here in the UK, Boston legal pulls down an audience of about 100,000 - 150,000 people and is shown at weird hours by one of the minor channels - I wouldn't even class that as cult viewing.

I know plenty of people who know of it or watch it in passing, though. But still, William Shatner remains far better known - here, anyway - for his Star Trek role.
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Old January 21 2008, 04:31 AM   #67
Brutal Strudel
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Re: Teaser a Slight to Kirk?

Starship Polaris said:
Brutal Strudel said:
Pointing out shallow hypocrisy on the part of the Shat bashers by illustrating a double standard is most logical.
Actually,it's not. It's just more playground stuff - usually referred to as "You're Another!"
Oh, and it is perfectly acceptable to point out that "you're another" when you truly are another.

Gotta say, Dennis, your smug "bait them and pounce" style would do Karl Rove proud.

Aside to Sam and Kegek: I've been man-tits deep in 19th Century lit so my flames will tend toward the refined. Besides, Mr. Bailey is not really, say, a human sphincter. But a lying poseur? That seems to fit.
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Old January 21 2008, 04:34 AM   #68
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Re: Teaser a Slight to Kirk?


Brutal Strudel said:
I've been man-tits deep in 19th Century lit so my flames will tend toward the refined.
Any Oscar Wilde? One of my all time favourite authors. Now he knew a good insult.
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Old January 21 2008, 04:44 AM   #69
Brutal Strudel
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Re: Teaser a Slight to Kirk?

Nope--all Americans. Studying for my last exam to get my masters. Right now, I'm reading Portrait of a Lady and listening to Moby Dick in my car. I recently read The Scarlet Letter, The Awakening and Huck Finn.

Thanks fer asking, though.
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Old January 21 2008, 04:46 AM   #70
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Re: Teaser a Slight to Kirk?

Mark Twain has some great insults.
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Old January 21 2008, 05:39 PM   #71
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Re: Teaser a Slight to Kirk?

Brutal Strudel said:
CommanderRaytas said:
I don't get why just because people say stupid things about Shatner, it becomes necessary to insult Nimoy. Sorry, I just don't see the logic behind that (to use the magic word, but it's true).

And I agree with monetteman on all points.

And btw, I'd have alcohol over food any day. Must be a matter of perspective.

Cheers!

On a more serious note, I don't think that Shatner's being a bit chubby has anything to do with him not being in this movie.
Pointing out shallow hypocrisy on the part of the Shat bashers by illustrating a double standard is most logical. And, cute as your little aside regarding food and booze may seem, it obviously is not true since you have not died.
Friend, this is only a message board. Now whatever experiences you have made with drinking might be tragic, but it's not my problem and I don't care. Like you don't care about my personal woes- and frankly, you shouldn't.

Besides I got what you were trying to say, I just felt you are over reacting and taking this way too seriously. And I don't think it's logical, it's that old "you insult mine, so I'll insult yours".

Calm down. You're too sensitive.
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Old January 21 2008, 06:30 PM   #72
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Re: Teaser a Slight to Kirk?

Starship Polaris said:
Over at www.trekmovie.com, Orci has responded to the question of Pine doing the "...final frontier" line by saying that it would have been presumptious to have done that before Pine has "proven himself" to the audience.
He really said that? I can't find it. If so, now that IS a slight.

It's interesting that Shatner has wormed his way into the discussion. I didn't mean not using Kirk was a slight to him at all. Just Kirk. As someone posted way upstream, you can't slight fictional characters, but whatever. Certain characters do take "ownership" of certain quotes and tag lines. Despite delivering it in TWOK, "Space, the final frontier...," is no more Spock's than Kennedy's line is LBJ's or Armstrong's line is Aldrin's.

Having Kirk (Pine) say it in a confident, commanding voice might have conveyed the energy, promise, and ultimate fulfillment of space exploration that the teaser is trying to evoke. Instead, Nimoy sounded old and tired. [I'm prepared to accept a bombardment of rocks and garbage for that last thought, but it's just my observation.]
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Old January 21 2008, 07:18 PM   #73
Baldus885
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Re: Teaser a Slight to Kirk?

Franklin said:
Starship Polaris said:
Over at www.trekmovie.com, Orci has responded to the question of Pine doing the "...final frontier" line by saying that it would have been presumptious to have done that before Pine has "proven himself" to the audience.
He really said that? I can't find it. If so, now that IS a slight.


They're just trying to generate interest in the movie. I doubt the feelings of an entirely fictional character were taken into consideration.
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Old January 21 2008, 11:08 PM   #74
Brutal Strudel
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Re: Teaser a Slight to Kirk?

CommanderRaytas said:
Brutal Strudel said:
CommanderRaytas said:
I don't get why just because people say stupid things about Shatner, it becomes necessary to insult Nimoy. Sorry, I just don't see the logic behind that (to use the magic word, but it's true).

And I agree with monetteman on all points.

And btw, I'd have alcohol over food any day. Must be a matter of perspective.

Cheers!

On a more serious note, I don't think that Shatner's being a bit chubby has anything to do with him not being in this movie.
Pointing out shallow hypocrisy on the part of the Shat bashers by illustrating a double standard is most logical. And, cute as your little aside regarding food and booze may seem, it obviously is not true since you have not died.
Friend, this is only a message board. Now whatever experiences you have made with drinking might be tragic, but it's not my problem and I don't care. Like you don't care about my personal woes- and frankly, you shouldn't.

Besides I got what you were trying to say, I just felt you are over reacting and taking this way too seriously. And I don't think it's logical, it's that old "you insult mine, so I'll insult yours".

Calm down. You're too sensitive.
I have no need to calm down as there was nothing incendiary in my response to you. I merely responded to what you were saying.

BTW, have you stuck up for Shatner on any of the numerous occasions he's been insulted? If you have, you have room to criticize. If not, I'll ask the question I've asked you before: why does Nimoy's ruinous indulgence get a free pass where Shatner's doesn't? (And please refrain from a frat style "yeeeah-yuh, booze!" if you wish to be taken seriously.) It's not a matter of sensitivity, it's a matter of honesty and intellectual integrity, two things in short supply on this board.

But I've made my point and I'll lay off Len--my best friend is an alcoholic and an anorectic. I love her drunk or sober, chunky or thin. I also love the performances turned in by Shatner and Nimoy over the years and I feel that, if we must have Nimoy in this film, we should also have Shatner. It'll run like a car with a flat without him.
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Old January 22 2008, 02:56 PM   #75
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Re: Teaser a Slight to Kirk?

Brutal Strudel:

honestly, the last thing I want is insult someone important to you. It was a joke. And it was stupid, admittedly so. I actually didn't mean to be taken seriously when I wrote that.

As to your opinion, I think, in all honesty, that insulting anyone for their habits or their weight (and one of my best friends is bulimic and addicted to drugs, so I know where you're coming from) is ridiculous.

I for one am one of the people who does not need Shatner to be in the new movie. That does not mean I don't find it tasteless when people call him fat and say that's the reason he didn't get casted. It is ridiculous. You are right. Because if that were so, you should not cast someone with an alcohol addicton or whatever destructive habit they might have.

Having said that, I disagree on the point that Shatner should have been casted, but it has nothing to do with his age, weight or personality.

I hope this was less stupid and insulting to you. Didn't mean any harm.

Can we agree to disagree on the Shatner thing, then?
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