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Old January 19 2008, 07:18 PM   #121
Harry
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

But err... isn't LEO still quite firmly in the 'gravity well'?
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Old January 19 2008, 07:34 PM   #122
Forbin
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

It's sitting on the edge of the well, not swimming on the bottom.
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Old January 19 2008, 08:48 PM   #123
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Trekker4747 said:
Does anyone else wonder why they're finishing the interiror when they've not yet completed the exterior and why they've already painted on the hull markings before they've even finished building the damn thing?
It's an idiotTrek tradition, like why they have decorative art in the refit before they've even TESTED the engines at warp power. And let's not even get started on the EnterpriseTues-B ...
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Old January 19 2008, 10:19 PM   #124
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

trevanian said:
Trekker4747 said:
Does anyone else wonder why they're finishing the interiror when they've not yet completed the exterior and why they've already painted on the hull markings before they've even finished building the damn thing?
It's an idiotTrek tradition, like why they have decorative art in the refit before they've even TESTED the engines at warp power. And let's not even get started on the EnterpriseTues-B ...
Well, when you consider that the fabricated parts are probably replicated, why not replicate the livery on them, so as soon as they're installed, you don't have to paint but the seams after they're welded.
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Old January 19 2008, 11:24 PM   #125
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Until I don't see the final look of the bowling room, I won't get excited. I mean, you have to put your priority straight poeples!
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Old January 19 2008, 11:29 PM   #126
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Well, we haven't seen the final look of the bowling alley, so you should be excited right now!
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Old January 20 2008, 12:05 AM   #127
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Ptrope said:

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this - and I'm famous for my automotive analogies . Why couldn't Kirk first encounter a carbon copy - or at least a ship that is clearly the original ship and not simply based upon its silhouette? When we talk about automotive analogies, I'd go with the new Dodge Challenger more than the Camaro - the 2008 has nearly every line of the 1970 original in evidence, and yet not one single line is common between the two cars; they've managed to make a clean, modern car without abandoning what made the original a classic, retaining the details in spirit even though they don't actually match the original blueprints. This is what I love about Vektor's latest model of Enterprise: it's clearly the original ship, not the motion picture version, not a BSG version, nor anything else, even though it probably doesn't share a single line or contour with the TV model.

The new 2008 Camaro is a TMP Enterprise, and from what I see in this one shot of the 2008 Enterprise, it is, too. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing - the TMP ENT was my favorite version of the Gray Lady until last week. But I disagree with any assertion that the real, original design of the ship is somehow implausible in this day and age and on the big screen; it just needs a little tweaking, not reimagining.
I should have phrased that better.

Let's say a movie was made this year, but set in 1970. One of the characters gets his first car, and it happens to be a Dodge Challenger.

However, instead of the 1970 model, in its place they use the 2008 model.

The argument: "The new Challenger has the same lines as the original, but it's more modern for a 2008 audience."

Is that more clear?
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Old January 20 2008, 12:22 AM   #128
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

The difference being that there's no 23rd century for the movie to be set in, any more than there's an historical Krypton for Kal-El to fall from.

Ergo, there's no more or less restriction on redesigning the fictional 23rd century than there has been in redesigning Krypton every few years since the beginning of "Superman" in the comics - and the reason to do so in both cases is simply to update the property to suit evolving tastes and expectations (as well as to let creative comic book and film artists be artists and designers rather than human photocopiers).

My favorite Krypton, BTW, remains Wayne Boring's - from that period of time when he was having all the men on the planet wear those transparent "Saturn's rings" hats.
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Old January 20 2008, 12:49 AM   #129
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Mariner Class said:
I should have phrased that better.

Let's say a movie was made this year, but set in 1970. One of the characters gets his first car, and it happens to be a Dodge Challenger.

However, instead of the 1970 model, in its place they use the 2008 model.

The argument: "The new Challenger has the same lines as the original, but it's more modern for a 2008 audience."

Is that more clear?
That is not an accurate analogy, because the 1970 are an actual time period and Star Trek's 2360ies aren't.

However, things like that happen, the "hero car" in "Gone in 60 seconds" was supposed to be a muscle car from the late 1960ies, but they didn't go with the original look of the car, but used a modernized version.
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Old January 20 2008, 12:58 AM   #130
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Sean_McCormick said:
That is not an accurate analogy, because the 1970 are an actual time period and Star Trek's 2360ies aren't.
It most certainly is, in story terms.

However, things like that happen, the "hero car" in "Gone in 60 seconds" was supposed to be a muscle car from the late 1960ies, but they didn't go with the original look of the car, but used a modernized version.
Was Gone in 60 seconds SET in the 1960s?

If a movie SET in the 1960s uses a car designed in the 2000s, it's WRONG.

Try to wrap your head around it.
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Old January 20 2008, 01:01 AM   #131
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Forbin said:
Sean_McCormick said:
That is not an accurate analogy, because the 1970 are an actual time period and Star Trek's 2360ies aren't.
It most certainly is, in story terms.
Nope, it's not. He's right. This has nothing to do with story, it's about visual design.
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Old January 20 2008, 01:07 AM   #132
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

I'm convinced the whole teaser sequence is not going to be in the finished film, just for the trailer only. It's been done before, and recently. ILM did a BEAUTIFUL fly-by of Iron Man for that film's trailer, admitting the shot wasn't in the film, just done for the trailer (they say BETTER stuff is actually in the film *drool drool*) As far as the design, I think it's OK so far, but I've only seen 15% of the ship. Let's not get too hasty until we've seen the whole thing. I must admit, though, she DOES look like a technical progression from ENTERPRISE, which is OK for me (I'm a season 3-4 fan). I'm one of the wackos that thinks ENTERPRISE veered into an alternate timeline because of the temporal Cold War, so, I'm thinking that this film is TOS-alternate. This especially makes sense if one knows of the involvement of Nimoy's Spock and what he does in this film. (speculation) I see some tips of the hat to Mr. Probert so far and that makes me happy.
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Old January 20 2008, 01:32 AM   #133
Wingsley
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Starship Polaris said:
The difference being that there's no 23rd century for the movie to be set in, any more than there's an historical Krypton for Kal-El to fall from.

Ergo, there's no more or less restriction on redesigning the fictional 23rd century than there has been in redesigning Krypton every few years since the beginning of "Superman" in the comics - and the reason to do so in both cases is simply to update the property to suit evolving tastes and expectations (as well as to let creative comic book and film artists be artists and designers rather than human photocopiers).

Hmmm... "human photocopiers"...

So why don't these artists and writers simply start with a completely clean sheet of paper, instead of capitalizing on the STAR TREK name?

If you want to see the 2008 Camaro and you don't have time for a 1970 Camaro, then there's nothing wrong with making a NEW TREK with new characters, no Starship Enterprise with "NCC-1701" on the hood, no Jim Kirk, no Spock, etc.
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Old January 20 2008, 01:36 AM   #134
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Wingsley said:
Starship Polaris said:
(as well as to let creative comic book and film artists be artists and designers rather than human photocopiers).
Hmmm... "human photocopiers"...

So why don't these artists and writers simply start with a completely clean sheet of paper, instead of capitalizing on the STAR TREK name?
the reason is all about you, in this forum.
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Old January 20 2008, 01:41 AM   #135
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Sean_McCormick said:That is not an accurate analogy, because the 1970 are an actual time period and Star Trek's 2360ies aren't.
No, it's a fine analogy because the 23rd century is as much a real time period in Star Trek's universe as the 1970s are in our universe.
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