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Old February 6 2008, 07:55 AM   #496
largo
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

why not build it on the ground? there are lots of compelling reasons to build stuff on the ground. i mean, if its going to take the stresses of going from zero to full impulse in the time it takes to say it, 1g should be no big thing.
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Old February 6 2008, 09:34 AM   #497
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

The stress of the assembled ship flying from the ground to orbit is no big thing.

Agreed.

The big thing is the stress on the partially assembled framework. Something shaped like the Enterprise would collapse under its own weight during construction without some really serious bracing and scaffolding, which would probably account for three-fourths of the resources devoted to building it.

What would logically happen is something akin to what real-world naval shipyards do. They construct a pre-fabricated section of a ship (called a superlift) which is then moved by a massive crane from the construction yard to the drydock and installed on the ship assembly. In a similar manner, a pre-fabricated section of the Enterprise (say, a pizza-slice of the saucer hull) would be constructed on the ground and then lifted up to orbit to be installed on the ship assembly. Come to think of it, that's pretty much how the International Space Station is being built right now...
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Old February 6 2008, 09:48 AM   #498
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

It sure looks like the whole ship is being built on Earth. If the partially-built warp nacelles are in position behind the partially-built saucer hull, that means the saucer hull is connected to the neck, which is connected to the lower hull, which is connected to the pylons, which is connected to the warp nacelles...

According to what I'm hearing here and over at TrekMovie, the Big E's being built on earth. Nothing to say that the major components were not built on the ground and then hauled up into space for final assembly.

The render is awsome and it looks like the still was from the very end of the trailer during the pullback/reveil. Looks like they're vamping on the TMP version of the ship over the 60's TV version. As I said in the other thread, this looks a good deal like Gabe's version of the Big E, right down to the warp engines. I'm liking what I see so far but,..... I need more pictures!

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Old February 6 2008, 10:21 AM   #499
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

I believe the bridge is lower. It's hard to tell from this angle, but I think the bridge section has more in common with the one from Star Trek Enterprise than it does with the one from TOS.

The bridge section from Star Trek Enterprise is a single-deck assembly with a small instrument dome on top of it, while the bridge section from TOS is a bridge dome on top of a two-deck dome on top of the saucer hull. It looks to me like this bridge section is two decks high with a small instrument dome on top, which would make it a hybrid of Star Trek Enterprise and TOS.

Hard to judge the ship, seeing how it seems to be in heavy fog and we can only see the top-front in extreme close-up. Still, it looks pretty good: TOS nacelles, similar font, no TMP phaser banks, no self-illumination (that we can see). The top is a bit different, but nowhere near a total redesign. Either the ship is scaled bigger than the original ~1000 ft estimate, or the bridge is lower in the hull.

Keep in mind that this image was made a while ago. The design may not be 100% the same as what shows up in the film. The font could be a place-holder, for example. (Not that it would bother me if it weren't).
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Old February 6 2008, 11:08 AM   #500
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

The open hull plates would indeed be needed for moving bulky stuff into the hull because bulky stuff is bulky. There is a definite limit to the size and mass of objects that a transporter can handle. (If not, then they would be able to store the molecular pattern of the whole ship in a computer somewhere and just beam it into existence whenever they needed one...)

Dunno. It looks to me like the interior is somewhat there despite the outter-shell still being underconstruction.

And I still take issue with the registration "decal" being placed before the outerhull is finished but, I guess, it could not be painted on/a decal put actual part of the material itself.

As for moving bulky stuff into the hull (hence the open hull plates) irrelevant and uneeded in an age of transporters and anti-gravity units.

And don't get me started on constructing it in an atmosphere/surface-side.
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Old February 6 2008, 11:27 AM   #501
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

I agree that the ship is a classic timeless design, but it does need to have some changes, if only to preserve story continuity. There is evidence (from more than one source) that the Enterprise has undergone at least two refits between the time of its construction and the TOS period. These should NOT be massive changes (such as what happened between TOS and TMP), but there should be a few Star Trek Enterprise elements on the new design which would be logically eliminated as the ship progressed toward the TOS period.

So here's a question.

Why did the ship (production wise) need to be "redesigned" at all?

It's a classic, timeless, design that should not have been in changed in anyway.
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Old February 6 2008, 12:23 PM   #502
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

The impression I got from observing TOS and TNG together was that TOS had a form of replicator that required source matter, while TNG had advanced to the point of replicating matter using just energy.

You can't honestly expect people who use transporters to not have replication of some kind, do you?

I'll grant you the fact that they're easy to misuse, but TNG misused most concepts thrown at them.

Hell, the way TNG used replicators, they'd have constant power shortages because they'd use it to fucking open and shut panels instead of using handles.

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Old February 6 2008, 01:35 PM   #503
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Welcome to the board, therealfoxbat. Please take a couple minutes to review the board rules, especially those regarding "spamming":
Do not post more than twice in a row in the same thread. If you need to answer more than one person in the thread, please use the quote function.
Participation is a good thing; just keep it organized and within the rules.
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Old February 6 2008, 01:41 PM   #504
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

If you guys are talking about the "Shield Grid" as in the radial lines on the top of the saucer hull, those were invented by Franz Joseph, who included them on his drawing of the Heavy Cruiser (TOS Enterprise) in the Star Trek Technical Manual. That drawing (including the "Shield Grid" seams) was used by AMT/ERTL to design the first production plastic model of the TOS Enterprise, and we've had them ever since. The "Shield Grid" seams weren't actually part of canon Star Trek until they were included on the new Enterprise model used to film TMP.

TheMacMan said:
Vance said:The idea that they're part of the 'shield grid' is a TNGism to explain it away - despite the fact that they're an amateur modelist's 'trick' to show scale.
Ummmm, no, they're a modeling technique to show detail. You look at scale models of aircraft? They have rivets the size of grapefruit. If they weren't that big they wouldn't be visible.
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Old February 6 2008, 01:44 PM   #505
Santaman
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

therealfoxbat said:
The big thing is the stress on the partially assembled framework. Something shaped like the Enterprise would collapse under its own weight *snip snip*
Why assume this? they're NOT building it out of steel or out of any other material we can use/think off today.
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Old February 6 2008, 01:59 PM   #506
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Sorry about that. I found this nice long thread a few hours ago and I was responding to comments as I came across them. I'm also figuring out the quote function by trial and error.

I seem to be having trouble locating that rules section. A little help...?

Ptrope said:
Welcome to the board, therealfoxbat. Please take a couple minutes to review the board rules, especially those regarding "spamming":
Do not post more than twice in a row in the same thread. If you need to answer more than one person in the thread, please use the quote function.
Participation is a good thing; just keep it organized and within the rules.
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Old February 6 2008, 02:17 PM   #507
Irishman
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

ancient said:
Irishman said:
aridas sofia said:
Irishman said:
So then, why can not THESE minds roam and fill in their OWN details without being vilified for it?
You have a vivid imagination. I have "vilified" no one.

Try going back through my past posts before starting the flame act. I've been receptive of any reimagining that exercises enough care to pique my interest. However, with your permission, I'll reserve the right to express my preferences.
Didn't mean to imply you had. But others on this and other boards have. Unrepentantly.

There are just so many more important things in this world to get one's panties in a twist over. Global warming? Starvation? Energy problems? Wars? Man's inhumanity to man?

We could all use a shift in priorities. It's just a movie. They're all just movies and tv shows. Sometimes I think we forget that.
Hey, there's nothing wrong with taking this seriously, we can take entertainment seriously without loosing perspective. As a matter of fact, pretty much everyone does, even the most rabid fan.

I love any chance to pull out the list of how to argue badly from grenades.com:

9. “There are far more important things to worry about.” Pow! Knockout punch! The beauty of this argument is that it is irrefutably true. It’s like Maslow’s hierarchy of needs got together with the Kübler-Ross model of grief to create a leaderboard of tragedy and loss. Worried about how your kid is doing in school? Worry that your kid is on drugs! Saddened by Katrina? Think of the people who died in the Indian Ocean tsunami of 2004. Pull this argument out when people are discussing pop culture such as movies or comic books with any seriousness. Who cares that, carried to its logical conclusion, the argument means you should never worry about anything except the hypothetical #1 important worry of all time?

I'm encouraging perspective.
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Old February 6 2008, 02:20 PM   #508
aridas sofia
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

therealfoxbat said:
If you guys are talking about the "Shield Grid" as in the radial lines on the top of the saucer hull, those were invented by Franz Joseph, who included them on his drawing of the Heavy Cruiser (TOS Enterprise) in the Star Trek Technical Manual. That drawing (including the "Shield Grid" seams) was used by AMT/ERTL to design the first production plastic model of the TOS Enterprise, and we've had them ever since. The "Shield Grid" seams weren't actually part of canon Star Trek until they were included on the new Enterprise model used to film TMP.
The lines were there on the 11 foot model, drawn in pencil on the painted surface. They were purposely drawn very faintly, and are only visible in certain shots (like the two-shot with the Constellation in "The Doomsday machine").
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Old February 6 2008, 02:49 PM   #509
Ptrope
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

therealfoxbat said:
I seem to be having trouble locating that rules section. A little help...?
Important board information is linked in the boxes on the right side of the page, at the top.
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Old February 6 2008, 04:09 PM   #510
Forbin
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

therealfoxbat said:
If you guys are talking about the "Shield Grid" as in the radial lines on the top of the saucer hull, those were invented by Franz Joseph, who included them on his drawing of the Heavy Cruiser (TOS Enterprise) in the Star Trek Technical Manual. That drawing (including the "Shield Grid" seams) was used by AMT/ERTL to design the first production plastic model of the TOS Enterprise, and we've had them ever since. The "Shield Grid" seams weren't actually part of canon Star Trek until they were included on the new Enterprise model used to film TMP.
Incorrect. The radial and concentric panel lines were on the original model from the very beginning. They were pencilled on lightly so as to be realistically inconspicuous. They're visible in most shots that show a closeup of the top of the saucer section. Franz Joseph didn't event them. The AMT model exaggerated them severely however.

And the AMT model was released during the run of Star Trek in the 1960s, while the Franz Joseph tech manual was released in 1975, so I kinda doubt the model was based on the TM, ya know?
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