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Old January 24 2008, 09:36 AM   #241
Saul
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Mark_Nguyen said:
So, has anyone sketched up the whole ship yet? Like the fandom made practically a WHOLE MODEL of the Sovereign class ship by using one blurry dorsal view accidentally left in a TV interview in 1995?

Mark
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Old January 24 2008, 12:40 PM   #242
Harry
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Ptrope said:
I guarantee that if this ship, shot properly, had been in the teaser, not one single chuckle would have been heard. In fact, I guarantee the theater would've been filled with the sound of startled wonder and not a few gasps of pleased astonishment. The "unwashed masses" wouldn't know the difference between Vektor's design and the teaser version, and the Trek fans would've shed a tear or two at how good she stands up on the grand scale with very little relative change.
Well, to be honest, I don't agree. If you're going to redesign stuff, you'd better go for it 100% than do some half-way job.
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Old January 24 2008, 02:28 PM   #243
trevanian
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

TheMacMan said:
trevanian said:papier mache (note the spelling)
Paper mach. Note the spelling.
Neat. how do you do that?
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Old January 24 2008, 07:07 PM   #244
Captain Robert April
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

saul said:
Mark_Nguyen said:
So, has anyone sketched up the whole ship yet? Like the fandom made practically a WHOLE MODEL of the Sovereign class ship by using one blurry dorsal view accidentally left in a TV interview in 1995?

Mark

I don't have access to any graphics programs at the moment, or I'd do a comparison myself, but note that, at least in the trailer itself, the primary hull appears to be four decks thick at the outer rim.

Adjust your comparison pics accordingly.
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Old January 24 2008, 08:16 PM   #245
Forbin
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

trevanian said:
TheMacMan said:
trevanian said:papier mache (note the spelling)
Paper mach. Note the spelling.
Neat. how do you do that?
Ya gotta know the ASCI code.
On your keyboard, hold down the ALT key, while on the keypad type 0233. When you let go of the ALT key you'll get .

I got a chart of such things with a program a looooong time ago and make sure I vere lose it.
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Old January 24 2008, 08:38 PM   #246
ST-One
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Forbin said:
trevanian said:
TheMacMan said:
trevanian said:papier mache (note the spelling)
Paper mach. Note the spelling.
Neat. how do you do that?
Ya gotta know the ASCI code.
On your keyboard, hold down the ALT key, while on the keypad type 0233. When you let go of the ALT key you'll get .

I got a chart of such things with a program a looooong time ago and make sure I vere lose it.
It that only because you guys have to use an American keyboard?
All I have to do is hit one key next to the backspace-key and then type the letter I need

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Old January 24 2008, 09:36 PM   #247
Arlo
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Or just get a Mac and type option-e-e.
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Old January 24 2008, 09:40 PM   #248
Ptrope
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Starship Polaris said:
It's also true that the fact that two very different productions - Abrams' film and "Enterprise" - have made similar choices in several regards is in large part because the alternatives are not reasonable.
This isn't true at all. Just because they came to the same trendy conclusions doesn't mean they bothered to explore the alternatives. Let's face it, Hollywood is filled with ex-waiter/ex-ecutives who latch onto what has been successful for someone else, and then insist that everything else should follow that formula. What I really don't understand is these same people's tendencies to option a well-known property, presumably because that property is recognized as having proven successful elsewhere, and then proceed to strip out the very things that set it apart from the rest of the chaff. In this case, how does making Star Trek resemble every other recent sci-fi production, including a number of Trek movies that weren't exactly blockbusters, constitute 'visionary' or 'radical' thinking? Bigger and busier aren't, by definition, better. And again, we come down to this: the 'unwashed masses" wouldn't know the difference between a reimagined Enterprise and a one like Vektor's, which maintains both the form and spirit of the original in a package that would be both classic and acceptable to those same 'unwashed masses' used to the high-tech style of recent films, and at the same time, his design clearly strikes a chord with a good representative sample of hardcore fans. Both sides win!

I don't really see that this math is all that hard to follow.
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Old January 24 2008, 09:40 PM   #249
foravalon
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

oh lord, where is this thread going...
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Old January 24 2008, 09:53 PM   #250
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Ptrope said:
Let's face it, Hollywood is filled with ex-waiter/ex-ecutives who latch onto what has been successful for someone else, and then insist that everything else should follow that formula.
I don't think that's relevant to any decisions made by talented people like Abrams and his design staff. Calling people "ex-waiters" is just dismissive rhetoric.

Leonard Nimoy is, among other things, an ex-vacuum cleaner salesman; Hemingway an ex-hobo and Einstein an ex-patent clerk.

In fact, the studio executives and producers both at the time of "Enterprise" and the entirely new groups running things now understood that there is no commercial future in pandering to the "hard core fans," which is what I was referencing in the Vance/Vektor exchange. This is smart.

If they somehow picked that common sense up in the course of waiting tables somewhere - well, actually, that's not terribly surprising when one thinks of it; a lot of bright kids pay their way through school and travel by that method.
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Old January 24 2008, 09:57 PM   #251
Q2UnME
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

^I don't have any clue either. All this discussion over a trailer that was made while the move was just wrapping up pre-production and heading into principal photography. I feel fairly certain in saying that what we saw in the trailer is not going to be what ends up in the final film cut. ILM probably is still working on the animatics right now. Yea, this might have been a first pass on the Enterprise, but she'll be further refined as the wrap principal photograph and continue through post production. My guess would be that the Enterprise may drift more towards the original look, but that's all up to J.J. as ILM brings him progress shots and animatics as the film progresses. I also suspect Paramount will have something to say about the final look too.

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Old January 24 2008, 10:51 PM   #252
Philo
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Ptrope said:
Starship Polaris said:
It's also true that the fact that two very different productions - Abrams' film and "Enterprise" - have made similar choices in several regards is in large part because the alternatives are not reasonable.
This isn't true at all. Just because they came to the same trendy conclusions doesn't mean they bothered to explore the alternatives. Let's face it, Hollywood is filled with ex-waiter/ex-ecutives who latch onto what has been successful for someone else, and then insist that everything else should follow that formula. What I really don't understand is these same people's tendencies to option a well-known property, presumably because that property is recognized as having proven successful elsewhere, and then proceed to strip out the very things that set it apart from the rest of the chaff. In this case, how does making Star Trek resemble every other recent sci-fi production, including a number of Trek movies that weren't exactly blockbusters, constitute 'visionary' or 'radical' thinking? Bigger and busier aren't, by definition, better. And again, we come down to this: the 'unwashed masses" wouldn't know the difference between a reimagined Enterprise and a one like Vektor's, which maintains both the form and spirit of the original in a package that would be both classic and acceptable to those same 'unwashed masses' used to the high-tech style of recent films, and at the same time, his design clearly strikes a chord with a good representative sample of hardcore fans. Both sides win!

I don't really see that this math is all that hard to follow.
From what I've seen of this Enterprise, it really only confirms my expectations that Abrams simply does not have the creative wherewithal to make me excited about this movie. Using the original design would have, ironically, shown some creativity and originality on his part. And honestly, that might have been cool but I wouldn't have expected that from anyone. There are simply too many people who would not have accepted it. On the other hand, I personally really would not have cared if they hadn't used the original design if they'd actually come up with something that was at least a little new and artistically interesting. Aping current trends simply doesn't cut it.. for me, anyway.

I think a lot of people are going to like this movie because it's going to bring Star Trek back from c-list to b-list but that's just not enough to truly make me excited. I'll watch it and probably even have fun doing it, but at the end of the day I imagine it'll still be a big giant shrug.
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Old January 25 2008, 01:02 AM   #253
trevanian
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Arlo said:
Or just get a Mac and type option-e-e.
Option-e-e, huh? Wow, maybe someday I should actually take out the manual on these things, I've got a mac mini and a mac laptop but clearly I am not MacSavvy.
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Old January 25 2008, 02:03 AM   #254
Patrickivan
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Papier-mch

Or in English, paper mache...

Just format the language in Word to get the accents. No biggy.
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Old January 25 2008, 03:29 AM   #255
ChuckPR
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Captain Robert April said:
hutt359 said:
Tell me, should the uniforms be valor pullovers?
They've made some advancements in velour since the mid 60's, so why not? Stuff still looks damn good on camera.

Should the women be in one piece micro minis?
I'd like to see more variations, but sure. After all, that was the style during that period of Star Trek.

Should the sets still be made of cardboard?
The point is the design, not the materials used.

Should all the planet shots be done on a sound stage with paper mashay rocks and rubber vomit bat creatures???
We're not talking about the planet scenes, we're talking about an established design in an established period being wildly, and unnecessarily, altered. Do pay attention, 007.
If all that were happening, or does happen, I would be/ will be, inclined to agree with you, Captain.

I just don't see any evidence that all of that is happening yet.

I'm willing to wait until the movie comes out.

There's a good chance I hate Nemesis, and a ton of what has become of Star Trek since about Voyager's fourth season
every bit as much as you, Captain RA.

But at least I waited until I saw Nemesis before I hated it.

By the way, I didn't pay to see it. I borrowed the DVD from the Library.

I would have liked to have claimed to be clairvoyant or to have not seen it because of something I heard,

but in truth it was because in my city it seemed like it was in the theater a month or less before it was given the boot.

Ironically, I was walking up Royal Street here in New Orleans with it in my hand on the way to return it to the library
when I saw William Shatner trying to talk on his cell phone.

I'd like to say I said something witty like, "Save Trek from crap like this movie!!!"

but as it turned out I was too surprised by the rudeness of the people who stood less then 3 feet from the guy
who was clearly trying to avoid them hearing a personal conversation.

So I just walked on, commenting "Jeez, can't a starship captain make a phone call without you people breathing down his neck!"

I felt sorry for the guy. Then I remembered all the homes he owned, horses and ranch due to his popularity.

So feeling sorry for him passed after awhile. But I was still struck at how rude some fans can be.


The experience did remind and make me more angry at the time about Patrick Stewart's
blaming the fans for "not getting" what he thought was a fantastic movie.

As far as Patrick Stewart is concerned,
let him spend a few years signing autographs at Car Shows
for a living the way Shatner had to for years

- then come back and tell us Trek fans how stupid we are.
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