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Old January 22 2008, 04:08 AM   #196
Lord_Schtupp
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Seriously what's the purpose of Aztecing in the first place, other than it's supposed to make a ship look cool?

If it's the "grain" of the material used to fabricate the hull panels placed in alternating locations for strength then that would be bad from an engineering perspective. An engineer would want the grain to run parallel with the panels and perpendicular to the internal structure for max strength. Its that way in pressurized aircraft design, spacecraft should be likewise. So it cant be that IMO.
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Old January 22 2008, 04:17 AM   #197
Lord_Schtupp
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Ptrope said:
Starfleet Construction Yards - The Name Goes On Before the Quality Goes In!
lol so that explains why we never see a USS Zenith in the federation
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Old January 22 2008, 05:14 AM   #198
Manticore
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Lord_Schtupp said:
Seriously what's the purpose of Aztecing in the first place, other than it's supposed to make a ship look cool?

If it's the "grain" of the material used to fabricate the hull panels placed in alternating locations for strength then that would be bad from an engineering perspective. An engineer would want the grain to run parallel with the panels and perpendicular to the internal structure for max strength. Its that way in pressurized aircraft design, spacecraft should be likewise. So it cant be that IMO.
It's too regular to be grain anyway, isn't it?

I think of it as some sort of exotic energy dispersion outer layer, 'grown' on top of the hull panels themselves to try and disperse the energy of disruptors/whatever away from the hull. Almost every Starfleet ship that we've seen has one (even the TOS Constitution in IAMD, though it's subtle--and thus, pretty IMO), so it has to serve some purpose.

Artistically, I'll take it over Star Wars/BSG-style hull detailing. While I feel that the aztecing on this ship is a bit too high-contrast for my tastes, I much prefer it to what I was half-afraid of: an Enterprise with a Star Destroyer type greeble-coated hull.
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Old January 22 2008, 06:28 AM   #199
trevanian
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Mariner Class said:
trevanian said:
Since there are a couple different notions about how transporters actually work, yeah, I can easily figure them not to have replication. Somethingfornothing or somethingfornextonothing ain't quite the same as having Jeanie/genie blink you from one spot to the next.

Whether you figure the transporter actually converts matter to energy and back again (which sounds like an explosion to me, and I think Blish says as much in his novel), or whether it works like a dirac jump or a tunnel diode, it still isn't altering matter into a different form, or xeroxing one piece of matter into multiples.

Honestly, the two bits of tech have never seemed similar to me at all, though now that you point it out, I can see why folks might make that assumption.
I myself consider Spock Must Die to be the 80th episode, but the people in this movie don't. So we're stuck with theoretically-impossible (as opposed to practically impossible) transporters than run via Plot-Device Induction.
Damn straight.
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Old January 22 2008, 04:01 PM   #200
Woulfe
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

My take on all this stuff....

Had a 100% copy of the TOS ship been in the Teaser....
The "Unwashed Masses" would of LAUGHED at the Teaser....
Aren't Star Trek fans sick of the "Unwashed Masses" makeing fun of us after all these years ?
Why give them even more fuel to fire at us ?
I love the old ship as much as the next person, but lets face it, the "Unwashed Masses" see it as a joke still.
You know it's true, don't fool yourself.
When I saw this teaser at the local theater, not one person laughed, zero, nada, in fact I hear whispers that seem to indicate that these people were curious as to what they just saw, so the teaser did do it's job, yes ?
We need to relize this film isn't being made for us, it's being made for the "Unwashed Masses" so everything isn't going to look like 1966 no matter what.
We can't go home again, ever, for better or worse.
The "Star Wars Fans" would so egg on us if the 1966 version showed up on the big screen in a Star Trek movie made for 2008 and you know they wouldn't let up, ever.
So we're stuck with this from this point forward.
Part of this is Star Trek's fault, had "Enterprise" not looked MORE advanced then the old ship we wouldn't even BE in this situation in the first place, and try as we might we can't decanonize that show, well, except maybe TATV

- W -
* Sorry, someone had to say it, folks *
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Old January 22 2008, 04:29 PM   #201
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Woulfe said:
Aren't Star Trek fans sick of the "Unwashed Masses" making fun of us after all these years ?
It doesn't really matter who they laugh at. It does matter whether they respond to a Trek movie as visually plausible and emotionally engaging. It matters whether they're intrigued enough to see it and pleased with the experience if they do.

This teaser certainly ought to accomplish the "visual plausibility" factor better than traditional Trek marketing has. Will it intrigue anyone other than the pre-sold? That remains to be seen.

According to the actor who played the welder seen in close-up, almost all of this is green screen (duh). How much of it is CG and how much is model work is undisclosed, but those welders look a lot more like they're walking around on a real big object than, say, Kirk and Decker and company did when they stepped onto the outer hull in ST:TMP - either original or "director's edition."
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Old January 22 2008, 06:15 PM   #202
Ptrope
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

I guarantee that if this ship, shot properly, had been in the teaser, not one single chuckle would have been heard. In fact, I guarantee the theater would've been filled with the sound of startled wonder and not a few gasps of pleased astonishment. The "unwashed masses" wouldn't know the difference between Vektor's design and the teaser version, and the Trek fans would've shed a tear or two at how good she stands up on the grand scale with very little relative change.
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Old January 22 2008, 07:20 PM   #203
aridas sofia
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

^ I absolutely agree. There is a visual "middle ground" that in capable hands can be struck and still achieve the ends both the studio and filmmakers apparently seek.
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Old January 22 2008, 08:08 PM   #204
Arlo
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Thirdinated.
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Old January 23 2008, 12:12 AM   #205
ancient
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Looks like this is more of a Batman-Begins style revision. They're keeping the core qualities but altering a lot of details.

Like making the ship twice as big. It might be just for the trailer, but if they wanted to do big interiors (like a hangar than fits in the hull without turning into a garage), it makes sense.
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Old January 23 2008, 03:11 AM   #206
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

ancient said:
Looks like this is more of a Batman-Begins style revision. They're keeping the core qualities but altering a lot of details.

Like making the ship twice as big. It might be just for the trailer, but if they wanted to do big interiors (like a hangar than fits in the hull without turning into a garage), it makes sense.
One of the set designers interviewed a few weeks ago remarked that the interiors would demonstrate that the Enterprise is a huge vessel in a way that they never did in the older versions - and also that "only the outside had to stay the same."

We're getting a clearer definition of "the same" now, and it may not include things like, oh, scale.

Not a window visible on the hull, of course. That would have helped with scale...which may be why there aren't any in the teaser.
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Old January 23 2008, 04:21 AM   #207
Captain Robert April
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

There is one sliver of hope here.

Orci, over on trekmovie.com, let slip that there is a plot-related reason why we've had a bloated, misshapen characiture of the Enterprise foisted upon us and wouldn't discuss it at this time.

So, yeah, it's possible we might get the "real" Enterprise back by the end of the movie.

However, I want that tidbit confirmed before I plunk down any coin on this thing. Otherwise, they can kiss my canonista ass before I go see this thing.
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Old January 23 2008, 05:57 AM   #208
Wingsley
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Ptrope said:
I guarantee that if this ship, shot properly, had been in the teaser, not one single chuckle would have been heard. In fact, I guarantee the theater would've been filled with the sound of startled wonder and not a few gasps of pleased astonishment. The "unwashed masses" wouldn't know the difference between Vektor's design and the teaser version, and the Trek fans would've shed a tear or two at how good she stands up on the grand scale with very little relative change.

Oh, wow...

Someone want to start an online petition to tell Paramount we want to see this ship in the new movie?


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Old January 23 2008, 06:17 AM   #209
Data Holmes
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Captain Robert April said:
There is one sliver of hope here.

Orci, over on trekmovie.com, let slip that there is a plot-related reason why we've had a bloated, misshapen characiture of the Enterprise foisted upon us and wouldn't discuss it at this time.

So, yeah, it's possible we might get the "real" Enterprise back by the end of the movie.

However, I want that tidbit confirmed before I plunk down any coin on this thing. Otherwise, they can kiss my canonista ass before I go see this thing.

Please... you'll still go see it, you will just bolster about how you didn't and how it sucked.
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Old January 23 2008, 06:24 AM   #210
Vance
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

You make too many assumptions, Hutt359. Quite a few Trek fans, such as myself, haven't bothered with a LOT of the most recent aspects of the Trek franchise (IE, not spent money on it).. and it's gotten a lot easier and easier to ignore and dismiss 'new' Trek material since it's been decidedly sub-par.

And, frankly, aping NuBSG to 'reboot Star Trek' seems to be an incredibly stupid thing to do.
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