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Old January 20 2008, 05:21 AM   #151
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Arlo said:
Aside from the cowl (which I'm not even that sure of is actually a cowl; foreshortening of the movie still suggests it could be near the length of the whole nacelle, not just the front), I see no similarity, sorry. And the Bussard mechanisms? There have been so many variants of that thing, it's something of an inside joke at this board. The "dual pinwheel" effect, I'm rather certain, has been done before.

This is true. The "cowl" is the only part of the thing that seems similar to Gabe's, and as you say it's difficult to tell that based on a single angle shot. There's not a close resemblance between these blades and the effect on Gabe's (no closer than to the original, which they're both derived from) unless, as suggested, they look similar in motion - and we have no way of knowing that at this point.
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Old January 20 2008, 05:38 AM   #152
aridas sofia
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Lord_Schtupp said:
My prediction is that they will show a highly detailed but otherwise exact version of our beloved classic 1701 at the very end of the movie, probably rebuilt after the epic battle with the bad guys (whoever they will be). So really the only "canon" that gets violated will be the first pilot episode with Pike.

I'm guardedly optimistic that this will be the case, and damned well hope it will be.

But I'm the guy that thought they had Shatner signed and were paying him to make an ass of himself, so take my optimism with a large chunk of NaCl.
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Old January 20 2008, 07:04 AM   #153
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Cary L. Brown said:

Ultimately, this is going to result in the new movie being treated much like the "Lost in Space" movie... as a separate piece. Except in the case of Lost in Space, both the TV show and the movie were abortions. In this case, the TV show is a classic, and we don't know WHAT the movie will be like. But it will inevitably cause a split in the mythos... fans arguing forever after about "which continuity" we're talking about... people choosing sides and fighting. Flame wars, etc.

It's pointless, counterproductive, and ultimately destructive. It may not mean that the film will be a success or a failure, but it will very likely put the final nails into the coffin of classic Trek fandom.

There are those who post here who'll take HUGE pleasure in that, too... and we know who they are.
Thanks, Cary, for the very thoughtful comments.

You are probably right about the "pleasure" comment. It was long known, not just in Hollywood, that Mr. Berman had an agenda of imposing his own politics onto TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT. Alot of folks went along with Bermanian TREK, and would not stand for criticism of it. There were many fans of TOS, myself included, who saw the implications of concept erosion even if the early years of TNG. When fans started becoming vocal in their criticisms of VOY and ENT, it was a surprise to me since I did not have access to first-runs of these shows. Having seen most of them in cable re-runs, and having witnessed the divided fan reaction on the internet, it isn't hard to put two and two together and see the some fans are in one camp and others are in the opposite camp. And boy, do they harbor a grudge after VOY ended and ENT was canceled.

Having said that, it now seems apparent that my previous postings have been misconstrued.

To re-iterate: a re-make/re-imagining can be legitimate; doing so does raise questions as to what the "new" TREK universe will stand for. Do the Starfleet characters operate under a Prime Directive or will they just chrage in, guns a-blazing, to "smoke 'em out of their holes"? Do the various races and species respect each other? Or is this going to be like the new GALACTICA, where you have fist-fights over a card game and pilots who are addicts? Will we see Lieutenant Uhura, or Britney Spears?

The notion of a remake is legitimate. (This movie could be a great thing.) So are these questions about the direction of such a remake. Saying "go and see the movie" doesn't cut it. Being a fan of TORA! TORA! TORA! did not obligate anyone to see PEARL HARBOR.

We'll have to wait 'n see.

It's interesting that critiques of the image (and the obvious implications of said image) were solicited in this thread, but anyone who does so risks being a target; "the movie isn't even out yet, and you're shooting it down". Meanwhile, people on TrekBBS are jumping to similar conclusions, using words to the effect of "This is exactly how it should look in a motion picture made in 2008." It seems that if the critique is flattering, it's okay to jump to a conclusion. The moment the critique is anything less than flattering, you're being outrageously judgemental and premature. Is that where we're headed?

So, all together now: the new movie will be the greatest STAR TREK ever, the image is so sexy that we all want to pre-order the model kit for next Christmas. And when we look back on the last 40 years, we'll look upon the "old" trek versus the new one, and we'll all agree that the Beatles was just Paul McCartney's band before Wings.

Are we all in agreement now?

Glad we got that right.
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Old January 20 2008, 09:53 AM   #154
foravalon
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

So I just got back from seeing Cloverfield and likewise the teaser trailer for the ST film. I can confirm that the dual blades in the nacelle caps do spin in opposite directions in the same way that Gabe's do.

But regarding the teaser in general, I don't think that there's any implied in-universe connection being made here. In fact, all the visuals seem to be pretty much a sight gag revolving around the tag line "Under Construction".

Everything in the trailer other than the reveal of the ship itself is modern and un-futuristic, the sight gag being that the full scale Enterprise is actually being welded together for the purpose of being filmed. It does look photo realistic, it is really cool, but I don't think anything in it should be taken any more seriously than the First Contact trailer showing a giant Borg ship in the shape the Starfleet logo. It looks to be just one big titillating pun.
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Old January 20 2008, 04:44 PM   #155
Forbin
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

I don't think Cary's warned post really qualified as flaming, so much as a well-deserved chastizement. Polaris' posts are way closer to flaming than Cary's understandable and appreciated response.

Had to say that. Carry on.
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Old January 20 2008, 04:47 PM   #156
Brutal Strudel
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

^^Though this really isn't the place to say so, I agree.
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Old January 20 2008, 04:50 PM   #157
Arlo
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

foravalon said:
I don't think anything in it should be taken any more seriously than the First Contact trailer showing a giant Borg ship in the shape the Starfleet logo. It looks to be just one big titillating pun.
Can we have this somehow plastered at the top of every forum page so people stop trotting out "OH NOES, WTF WELDARS IN THE 24th CNETARY WTF!?!?ONEONE!?!"
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Old January 20 2008, 05:44 PM   #158
ancient
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Those Nacelles do have many similar elements to Gabe's. They aren't the same ones, but they really look based on his. Of course, the perspective is so screwed up in that trailer shot it's hard to do a good comparison.

Regarding the redesign, and all:

I don't think that changing the design of the Enterprise itself is needed. The designers are not going to be turned into 'copy-machines' by keeping it's design. This is a big budget movie. There are going to be dozens of new ships and locations for the designers to build from scratch. No one can tell me that not changing this one ship design is going to put anyone out of a job. They chose to call their movie "Star Trek", no one forced them to.

This new ship is ok and all. But it just looks like...the cook that couldn't stop decorating the cake and ended up with 4 feet of frosting on it. It's not a huge tragedy or anything, but it is a bit annoying.
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Old January 20 2008, 06:05 PM   #159
Sean_McCormick
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Actually, some parts of Gabe's nacelles are closer to the original as on the other ones.
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Old January 20 2008, 07:07 PM   #160
foravalon
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Arlo said:
foravalon said:
I don't think anything in it should be taken any more seriously than the First Contact trailer showing a giant Borg ship in the shape the Starfleet logo. It looks to be just one big titillating pun.
Can we have this somehow plastered at the top of every forum page so people stop trotting out "OH NOES, WTF WELDARS IN THE 24th CNETARY WTF!?!?ONEONE!?!"
You don't have to freak out dude, seriously take a breath.

All I'm saying is nothing in the preview really makes any in-story sense. Why would they be building the 1701 from scratch given the likely time-frame of the story? Why would they have hull insignia and detailing applied when they don't even have the structure completed? What possible reason would they have for building such massive elements on the surface only to have to haul them up into orbit? Surely the complexity of such an effort of just doing that would outweigh any benefits of building on the surface. It all just seems too silly to be so straight-forward. I'm sorry if that thought gives you conniptions.
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Old January 20 2008, 07:16 PM   #161
Arlo
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

^ Please re-read what I wrote. Clearly you missed my point.
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Old January 20 2008, 07:29 PM   #162
Sean_McCormick
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

How important is it for this discussion if the building-scene is in the movie?

But the design of the ship will not differ between this teaser and the film, and that is, what we should discuss here, the design of the ship.
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Old January 20 2008, 08:40 PM   #163
Arlo
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Actually, with a year to go, I'm sure the design will evolve a fair bit.
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Old January 20 2008, 09:33 PM   #164
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Arlo said:
Actually, with a year to go, I'm sure the design will evolve a fair bit.
Possibly. I'm reminded of the first images of King Kong from Jackson's movie (or for that matter, Gollum's first appearence in flashback in FOTK) - the filmmakers did a lot of revision and adjustment between that and the final.
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Old January 20 2008, 10:28 PM   #165
ancient
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

I wouldn't be surprised if it changed a bit. Wasn't this trailer done pretty early?

Plus it's...under construction.
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