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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old January 19 2008, 04:55 AM   #331
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
Re: Enterprise Pic

On the TOS version of the registry, the "NCC-1701" follows the curvature of the disk circumference, but the "u.s.s. enterprise" does not - it crosses the dome of the saucer top. It's only with the TMP refit that both parts of the registry curve along the same axis.
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Old January 19 2008, 05:05 AM   #332
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Re: Enterprise Pic

Arpy said:
FX are top-notch, but the welding, etc, tells me this is more fantasy than sci-fi,
Because people don't weld in Sci-fi?
"Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a Star Trek fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'." - Leonard Nimoy
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Old January 19 2008, 05:58 AM   #333
Location: U.S.S. Exeter
Re: Enterprise Pic

Cary L. Brown said:
Starship Polaris said:You use microscopic machines to form molecular bonds turning the two pieces of metal into a single piece.
Dennis, you just used terms that have real meaning in a way that demonstrates you're not sufficiently conversant in what they actually mean.

Cary, you're clearly very well-versed in the specifics of your field of expertise, but IMHO you're not really seeing the forest for the trees.

What I think that I and others are trying to say is that sometimes -- sometimes -- Trek was forced to resort to showing things onscreen that were woefully contemporary in order to save money. The terrible American Tourister luggage in TOS is a prime example. And I think the scenes of people sitting on hulls and welding two pieces of something together and having it look so very much like it does today stirs in many of us a disconnect as it relates to a society that (a) controls gravity, (b) travels at a thousand times the speed of light, and -- perhaps most fantastically of all -- (c) possesses transporter technology. Any ONE of these things does indeed border on the unbelievably advanced as they relate to the commonplace nature of the way they're portrayed in Trek.

I don't question your authority on the subject of welding and the various types of bonds, but I still contend that there's no way in hell that starships will be built in such a manner as welding in the 23rd century. The scientific advancements in the last hundred years arguably surpass everything learned in the previous 5,000. That rate of invention and creation and scientific discovery will, by most accounts, only increase as we proceed along the pathways of time. Dennis may have misspoken, but his general approach is valid -- a society that sees such fantastical technologies as routine elements of their existence will almost certainly have moved beyond welding as we know it today. IMHO -- specifics aside.

Terminology can sometimes be misleading, too. The same or similar term could be used in the future as today and yet have morphed into a definition that's very different. Will starship crews or even society in general really call things "computers" in nearly 300 years? I doubt it. And I can't believe, for instance, that the nomenclature on the starship hulls is "painted" on in the same manner that we describe painting today. Why? They would simply have better and more flexible & efficient ways of achieving the same thing than we do today.

I can say, though, that it's heartening to know we agree on what we've seen so far of this new Enterprise. I am definitely going to reserve judgement until I see more.
"Let's make sure that history never forgets the name... Enterprise."
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Old January 19 2008, 06:49 AM   #334
Nightfall to-Ennien
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Re: Enterprise Pic

The one thing that people seem to be ignoring here with the whole welding thing, is that even in the TNG tech manual, there was mention, in the history of the Enterprise D's construction, of the first parts of the structural skeleton of the vessel being "Gamma Welded" together.

Even if they DO use something of the like in the film, which I doubt, modern welders are designed the way they are for a reason, in order to make it as usable as possible. Perhaps they only happen to LOOK like modern welding devices, because a welder is designed in the best way they could think of to weld something, at least, given modern technological constraints. We can't even guess as to what the actual technological background of the device, so how do we know that it isn't some form of advanced (insert technobabble)welding device.

As for the sparks? ANY process which can fuse two pieces of metal together to make one is almost certain to involve a fairly large amount of energy, a good bit of which is most likely going to be wasted. This energy needs to disperse somehow, so who says it isn't in the form of sparks?

As for the ribbing on the nacelles, as some people interpret it, if you look closely, you can see a scaffolding running along the side of each nacelle. These scaffolds have a number of lights on them in a row, most clearly visible on the starboard nacelle. These appear to each cast a relatively localized light, and create a strong highlight where their reflection and bloom appears on the hull.
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Old January 19 2008, 08:41 AM   #335
Re: Enterprise Pic

When you look at the detail visible at front of the nacelles, you wonder If the same detail will be applied to the depiction of the warp effect the engines generate. You can almost picture those turbine blades scything through glowing, swirling plasma as the warp field rises up, out of the nacelles in a twinned vortex pattern that eventually engulfs the ship - or something similar in line with the attention to detail I suspect will be all over this film. I think it's safe to say that the cheesy star streak effects and such have hit the cutting room floor for the last time.
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Old January 19 2008, 08:48 AM   #336
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Re: Enterprise Pic

Well damn. Everything was looking great. We have a great director, writers, and cast. There's lots of hype and what seems to be a phenominal trailer. Everything is perfect and falling into place, right? No. Because some jackass is welding on the hull of the Enterprise. Oh well. Maybe the next movie will work out better.
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Old January 19 2008, 01:40 PM   #337
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Re: Enterprise Pic

Hey, come on. Leave the freaking welder alone. He's paid up on his Union Dues for the bloody month. What did HE do to pee in your cornflakes.

For crying out loud, it's not like the Mugatu was doing the welding or anything. Now THAT might be a serious canon violation.

Remember: no Mugatu, no Peace!
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Old January 19 2008, 02:25 PM   #338
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Re: Enterprise Pic

I'm not happy about the notion of the ship being assembled on the ground. Sure, make some components down here, but the image of a ship of the stars resting its keel in a muddy basin while insects, rodents, and rain have free access to its vulnerable interior leaves me uneasy. How long did it take to build the Enterprise? A few years? How many squirrels hid acorns in our beloved starship? How many dessicated wasp nests lurk within the hull? Dead flies and moths near light panels? Every time the huge and vastly powerful Starship Enterprise whooshes past the camera to Sandy Courage's triumphant fanfare, we'll now know the truth ... that within that duranium facade and hidden behind the walls and bulkheads are unswept piles of leaves and milkweed seeds that clustered unnoticed as the ship was assembled around them. Withered husks of starved spiders shudder within their dusty webs every time Kirk demands more power from Scotty -- entombed forever in ink-black darkness behind subjunction panels on every deck.
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Old January 19 2008, 04:33 PM   #339
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Re: Enterprise Pic

Nightfall to-Ennien said:
The one thing that people seem to be ignoring here with the whole welding thing, is that even in the TNG tech manual, there was mention, in the history of the Enterprise D's construction, of the first parts of the structural skeleton of the vessel being "Gamma Welded" together.
Good point...maybe that guy was using a 23rd-century gamma welder...maybe that's what a gamma welder looks like.

And to all those out there who are taken aback by the sight of the welder, the bottom line is this: it's only a teaser. Things that appear in teasers are not canon and are not even required to be 100% true to the Star Trek in-universe reality. The construction of the ship is just a metaphor.

Someone on another thread mentioned that some ST film teaser trailer (I don't know which film) showed scenes from Star Trek projected on the side of the Enterprise and the one for FC showed a Borg ship that happened to be the shape of the Enterprise/Starfleet emblem.

Yeah - these are ridiculously extreme examples, but the point is they are only scenes from a teaser trailer.

The ship as a projection screen is irrelevant; the Borg ship/Starfleet emblem is irrelevant; the welding is irrelevant.
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Old January 19 2008, 05:07 PM   #340
Re: Enterprise Pic

^ Good point.

The trailer could be a metaphor for building a movie set as much as the ship itself. The re-telling of the trek myth could be what's "Under Construction". Anyway, they've got a year to ash-can the ship exterior (and that "filthy" ground bound construction dock) if the fan grizzling grows loud enough (I suspect it all only exists digitally).

Mind you they might be just as willing to ash-can at least part of the existing fan base if the demographics are aimed much larger.
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Old January 19 2008, 05:12 PM   #341
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Re: Enterprise Pic

Wow! I like this!
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Old January 19 2008, 05:35 PM   #342
Thomas Riker
Location: Scotland
Re: Enterprise Pic

Guys Guys Guys, about the welding thing. I seem to remember Scotty using a welder many times during TOS - I think to gain access to engineering once or an engineering panel.
During the TNG they simply couldn't be bothered going to the workshop to get a welder so they frequently used phasers.

About the construction of the enterprise on the ground. I'm not too hot on this for obvious reasons, but I believe even Galaxy Class vessels were constructed on the ground. Check out this memory alpha page on Utopia Planitia for evidence.

My first reaction to the picture is that I like what I see, I would like what everyone else on this board would like and that is to see more and soon.
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Old January 19 2008, 05:43 PM   #343
Lord Lunacy
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Re: Enterprise Pic

Keep in mind that what they put up on screen as a teaser lacks the polish of a finished product, and even being in raw form, it still looks good enough to serve its purpose; whet "our" appetites. I will reserve final judgment for the completed material when it is released, but so far what I’ve seen from the trailer is encouraging.

Also, I don’t see a problem with them constructing the ship on Earth. Space dock construction/launch scenes have been done ad nauseam in previous Trek films, but ground launches have not. If done right, to see a ship the size of a carrier lift off and head into space could be “spectacular”. Or it could be downright silly, depending on one’s point of view.
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Old January 19 2008, 05:52 PM   #344
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Re: Enterprise Pic

I'm always amazed by fan reactions.

A picture of a redesigned Enterprise, with significant changes is posted, and rather than a long argument about the pros/cons of the redesign of the ship, we instead have a long argument about torches and welding in a scene that will never appear anywhere except in this teaser.

Seriously, I didn't see it coming.
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Old January 19 2008, 06:04 PM   #345
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Re: Enterprise Pic

Let's think about this from a non-fans view....

Let's say the teaser DID have the ship in spacedock....

Joe 6 Pack : bbboooooorrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnngggggg, same old, same old, when are they going to do something diffrent with these things....

Star Trek has played it SAFE for far too long folks.

If you want these guys on our side for a EVENT film you just can't play it SAFE, you have to shake things up, if that means show the ship being bulit by welders on Earth, then by GOD show that to connect to the unwashed masses.

Star Trek can't live on fans alone anymore, we're too divived, just look at all the NEGITIVE posts, doesn't that tell you something ?

It should, it tells me that Star Trek can't support itself on the old gaurd at all any more, we're too critical, we can't agree on anything, it was bulit on earth, it was bulit in space, GOD, no wonder the unwashed masses make fun of us, we sound like spoiled rotten kids.

It's time we all pulled together for once, leave our percived notions at the door, and gosh darn it, support this NEW film, if not for ourselfs then for those fans yet to come, this club shouldn't be a members only thing, we need new blood.

- OR -

Do you want the franchise to end ?

If you do that's verry selfish of you.

- W -
* Sadden by the way we've been behaveing as of late *
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