RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,434
Posts: 5,507,240
Members: 25,131
Currently online: 555
Newest member: Robert100a

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 18 2008, 11:20 PM   #286
trevanian
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Enterprise Pic

Maxwell Everett said:
trevanian said:
The Enterprise in this pic looks like concept art, or a frame from an animatic. l honest to Christ can't figure out why concept art-level work has got so many people excited. If this is actually a final, then it says something about how little visual credibility means to filmgoers. (Unless maybe it looks better in motion? Guess I'll look for the trailer in a couple days and see what the high rez version plays like. Expectation is now low enough that I probably won't spit at the monitor.)
Right... whomever worked on that shot at ILM should be fired, it's so horrible. Seriously... you "honest to Christ can't figure [it] out"? Concept-level art"... "animatic"?

If I were Leonard Nimoy, I believe my response would be, "Go to hell!"

If I were Leonard Nimoy.
I'm astonished. You've been one of the most credible and well-reasoned posters on this board. YOU think this looks decent? Go over to the trekart thread on this and see posts of this thing up against stills from TOS series and movies. This thing looks like concept art by comparison.

Have the visual sensibilities of everybody on this planet atrophied in the last decade?
trevanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18 2008, 11:24 PM   #287
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Enterprise Pic

The Enterprise in this pic looks like concept art, or a frame from an animatic.
No, it does not; your bias in respect to these matters completely overwhelms any naive aesthetic response you may still be capable of.

In fact, in the trailer itself the image is far more persuasive and real-looking than any "live" model photography ever done for a "Star Trek" film.

Have the visual sensibilities of everybody on this planet atrophied in the last decade?
"Everybody's out of step but Johnny."
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18 2008, 11:35 PM   #288
ancient
Vice Admiral
 
ancient's Avatar
 
Location: United States
Re: Enterprise Pic

trevanian said:
Go over to the trekart thread on this and see posts of this thing up against stills from TOS series and movies. This thing looks like concept art by comparison.

Have the visual sensibilities of everybody on this planet atrophied in the last decade?
It's extremely high quality. If you can't see that maybe your computer isn't displaying it at full res due to size or something? That's the only explanation I can think of.
__________________
----------------------------
Time Travel was and will be confusing
ancient is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18 2008, 11:39 PM   #289
Arlo
Fleet Captain
 
Arlo's Avatar
 
Re: Enterprise Pic

Maybe he's looking at this.
__________________
"Even with all its blemishes, Trek XI still teabags the bloated corpses that were Insurrection and Nemesis and managed to make Trek fun again." - Sheep
Arlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18 2008, 11:40 PM   #290
Sharr Khan
Rear Admiral
 
Sharr Khan's Avatar
 
Location: USA Ct
View Sharr Khan's Twitter Profile
Re: Enterprise Pic

Assemblying the whole thing on earth doesn't make any sense to me, and it is an insult to all the planning and thought that has gone into figuring out how to build real interplanetary spacecraft (which is kind of ironic, given that folks have mentioned the NASA/Kennedy audio in the thread), which WILL be built in orbit, out of the gravity well.
Interesting considering the International Space Station is built in modules (not unlike nacelles... ect) and hauled up into space on shuttles that have consistently been built here on Terra Firma for final attachment...

Or what spacecraft are you talking about?

Sharr
Sharr Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18 2008, 11:43 PM   #291
Maxwell Everett
Commodore
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Enterprise Pic

trevanian said:
Maxwell Everett said:
trevanian said:
The Enterprise in this pic looks like concept art, or a frame from an animatic. l honest to Christ can't figure out why concept art-level work has got so many people excited. If this is actually a final, then it says something about how little visual credibility means to filmgoers. (Unless maybe it looks better in motion? Guess I'll look for the trailer in a couple days and see what the high rez version plays like. Expectation is now low enough that I probably won't spit at the monitor.)
Right... whomever worked on that shot at ILM should be fired, it's so horrible. Seriously... you "honest to Christ can't figure [it] out"? Concept-level art"... "animatic"?

If I were Leonard Nimoy, I believe my response would be, "Go to hell!"

If I were Leonard Nimoy.
I'm astonished. You've been one of the most credible and well-reasoned posters on this board. YOU think this looks decent? Go over to the trekart thread on this and see posts of this thing up against stills from TOS series and movies. This thing looks like concept art by comparison.

Have the visual sensibilities of everybody on this planet atrophied in the last decade?
Well thank you for saying so, but yes... as far as this one high-res shot is concerned (haven't seen the trailer in 35mm yet) it looks credible to ME as a massive, physical spaceship being built. And (presumably) this is probably ILM's first crack at VFX on this movie... so it's only going to get better from here (over the course of the year) as they tweak and refine.

And I am quite familiar with the VFX from TOS and the movies (And love both the work by Trumbull and Dykstra on TMP and Ralston and Farrar's work on the sequels.) I don't need to go over and visit some (excuse me for saying so) pissant trekart thread.

This image looks just as good as what's come before... just as professional and equally realistic. It's all technically bullshit anyway.
__________________
"Shake off all the fears & servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion." -Thomas Jefferson
Maxwell Everett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18 2008, 11:52 PM   #292
BorgusFrat
Lieutenant
 
Location: U.S.S. Exeter
Re: Enterprise Pic

Jackson_Roykirk said:
...but JBElliot, what's wrong with welding? It's the most effective and modern way we have today of joining two metals together, and I would think it would continue to be in practice (in some form) 240 years from now.
Dude, no offense, but seriously -- if you really and truly think that something as "today" as welding will survive into the 23rd century as a means of constructing starships made out of who-knows-what advanced materials and that such a construction method would hold fast during something as fantastical as "warp flight" that's hundreds of times the speed of light, well . . . I just think you need to open your mind more to the "creative" aspects of science fiction. That's like saying that sutures and thread will still be used to operate on people . . . but that's not what we saw, even in TOS, is it?

I respect your right to your opinion, and I anticipate some of the "well, welding is what we saw in the opening of DS9" or maybe "that's certainly what it looks like they're doing in this teaser pic", but just because something is the "most effective" and "modern" way of doing something today doesn't mean it will last into the future with such an unbelievably advanced society as depicted in TOS.

I mean, who says that starships are even really constructed of "metals" as we know them?

It's always refreshing to come here and read the posts of people who think outside the box, but I just think you missed the boat on that one.

As for the image, meh . . . I'd have to see more, but certain aspects of this (the clearly TMP-inspired bridge, the multiple phaser turrets, the bizarro font choice mixes, the Hulk-sized engines) make me go immediaely into a "wait and see before judging too harshly" mode. YMMV.
__________________
"Let's make sure that history never forgets the name... Enterprise."
BorgusFrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18 2008, 11:54 PM   #293
Rķu rķu, chķu
Fleet Admiral
 
Rķu rķu, chķu's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
View Rķu rķu, chķu's Twitter Profile
Re: Enterprise Pic

Squiggyfm said:
Samurai8472 said:
FordSVT said:
Teaser footage often does not appear in a final product.
The only one off the top my head is the transformers teaser footage of the mars 2 rover being destroyed(possibly by starscream)


That was in the movie.
And, AFAIK, it was Blackout.
__________________
"A hot dog at the ballpark is better than a steak at the Ritz." - Humphrey Bogart
Rķu rķu, chķu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 19 2008, 12:14 AM   #294
FlyingTigress
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: Enterprise Pic

Just got back from seeing Cloverfield on one of those digital screens

The written description of the teaser, and even the on-line version at YouTube, didn't prepare me for how cool it was. And, even resulted in a little lump in my throat for that reveal of the E.

Oh...re: metals. "The Class-F had a duranium-metal shell, was driven by ion engine power, (TOS: "The Menagerie, Part I") and was protected by deflector shields. (TOS: "The Immunity Syndrome")" -- from Memory-Alpha.org.

Although not canon-sourced (i.e. print media), Memory-Alpha has the following from the entry for duranium...

"According to the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Technical Manual, duranium is a naturally-occurring ore in planetary crusts such as the crust of Bajor. This would suggest that duranium itself is not an alloy, but rather that there is a family of elements where duranium is the prime constituent. This is further supported by the use of the term "duranium-235," which implies that duranium is in fact an element, one that has an isotope with an atomic weight of 235."
FlyingTigress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19 2008, 12:16 AM   #295
JBElliott
Commander
 
JBElliott's Avatar
 
Re: Enterprise Pic

Sharr Khan said:
Assemblying the whole thing on earth doesn't make any sense to me, and it is an insult to all the planning and thought that has gone into figuring out how to build real interplanetary spacecraft (which is kind of ironic, given that folks have mentioned the NASA/Kennedy audio in the thread), which WILL be built in orbit, out of the gravity well.
Interesting considering the International Space Station is built in modules (not unlike nacelles... ect) and hauled up into space on shuttles that have consistently been built here on Terra Firma for final attachment...

Or what spacecraft are you talking about?

Sharr
Why would people in the 23rd century want to copy methods of production that are hundreds of years out of date?
__________________
iPhone 2 iComm
JBElliott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19 2008, 12:22 AM   #296
Sharr Khan
Rear Admiral
 
Sharr Khan's Avatar
 
Location: USA Ct
View Sharr Khan's Twitter Profile
Re: Enterprise Pic

Why would people in the 23rd century want to copy methods of production that are hundreds of years out of date?
For the same reason you don't reinvent the wheel. If it works chances are we'll continue to use the method that has proven workable and or efficient right now.

Actually things don't change that much, its a mistaken conceit of scifidom in general and Trekdom in specific that thinks: "Future equals totally complete way of building or doing things".

I'd suspect this would increase with things like anti-gravity generators and such. Not having to worry about oxygen and being able to get at the guts of the saucer or nacelles would be served by ground construction then assembling all the pieces in space later.

Sharr
Sharr Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19 2008, 12:24 AM   #297
Jackson_Roykirk
Commodore
 
Jackson_Roykirk's Avatar
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Re: Enterprise Pic

BorgusFrat said:
Jackson_Roykirk said:
...but JBElliot, what's wrong with welding? It's the most effective and modern way we have today of joining two metals together, and I would think it would continue to be in practice (in some form) 240 years from now.
Dude, no offense, but seriously -- if you really and truly think that something as "today" as welding will survive into the 23rd century as a means of constructing starships made out of who-knows-what advanced materials and that such a construction method would hold fast during something as fantastical as "warp flight" that's hundreds of times the speed of light...
No offense taken, but how would you fuse two materials together?...Glue? Mechanical fasteners? (i.e. nuts and bolts/rivets)? Seriously -- I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but you are either going to glue, soldier, mechanically fasten -- or you can intrisically bond the two materials together (this is welding).

If a weld is done properly, the weld itself is at least as strong or even stronger that the materials being joined. A proper weld turns two pieces into virtually one piece. I suspect different welding techniques will be developed in the future that would make welds even stronger and more efficient to execute than the techniques we use today, but it would still be welding.

Maybe that guy in the teaser was using some futuristic "molecular welder" (I can't tell since I don't know what one looks like). Or maybe the whole teaser is just a metaphor symbolizing that this film is "under construction" and the welder is not meant to be a 23rd century starship builder at all, but just part of the "this film is under construction" metaphor.

Either way, I don't have a problem with the use of a welder.

cheers
__________________

...With shoes that cut, and eyes that burn like cigarettes
With fingernails that shine like justice and a voice that is dark like tinted glass...
Jackson_Roykirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19 2008, 12:24 AM   #298
JBElliott
Commander
 
JBElliott's Avatar
 
Re: Enterprise Pic

Arlo said:
JBElliott said:
Why is that in the 23rd century ships are built by welding together a bunch of metal panels?
Because this teaser is a metaphor for the movie, not meant to be in-universe reality.
Are you suggesting that the ship we see in the teaser won't be the ship we see in the moive? That the welding we see and the construction we see in the teaser is a metaphore for constructing the movie?
__________________
iPhone 2 iComm
JBElliott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19 2008, 12:28 AM   #299
JBElliott
Commander
 
JBElliott's Avatar
 
Re: Enterprise Pic

Sharr Khan said:
JBElliott said:
Why is that in the 23rd century ships are built by welding together a bunch of metal panels?

Why is there assumption this *wouldn't be* how it was done? There need not always be some scifi explanation.

Sharr
It's not so much assumption as extrapolation. Not many of the ship building techniques used 200 or 300 years ago we used in the construction of any modern ship, jet or space craft. So it's not so much of a stretch to expect that none of the techniques used today would be used to build the Enterprise.
__________________
iPhone 2 iComm
JBElliott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19 2008, 12:29 AM   #300
Cranston
Commander
 
Cranston's Avatar
 
Location: Right here. But where are you?
Re: Enterprise Pic

JBElliott said:
Arlo said:
JBElliott said:
Why is that in the 23rd century ships are built by welding together a bunch of metal panels?
Because this teaser is a metaphor for the movie, not meant to be in-universe reality.
Are you suggesting that the ship we see in the teaser won't be the ship we see in the moive? That the welding we see and the construction we see in the teaser is a metaphore for constructing the movie?
I think Arlo would say no to the first part, but yes to the second, and I more or less agree. The ship we see is the design they're using in the movie, but the whole "construction" sequence is a metaphor for the making of the movie, and more broadly, the rebuilding of the franchise.
__________________
"Oh, how mortals blame the gods, and say that evils come from us! But it's through their own reckless folly that they have pain beyond their share."

--Zeus, Odyssey I: 32-34
Cranston is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:31 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.