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Old January 18 2008, 11:12 AM   #16
Angel4576
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Re: Breen Attack on Earth

Well let's face it, if they were taking the global destruction route then the simplest thing is to do is just enter the solar system and take out the sun.
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Old January 18 2008, 12:50 PM   #17
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Re: Breen Attack on Earth

Indeed. One would think that the sort of system we saw in "Tears of the Prophets" could intercept thousands of long range torpedoes just as easily as it intercepts hundreds of point-blank starships. A Cardassian Dreadnought wouldn't have a prayer. And perhaps there could also be some sort of a gadget that stops warp torpedoes and warp ramming attacks, forcing the intruder to sublight. But we've never heard of such a gadget, although there are various ways of forcing things out of warp.

But that's only when guarding a planet. Guarding the central star against a single trilithium torpedo would be nigh-impossible...

That is, assuming that somebody knew how to build a trilithium torpedo. The techniques used for making a star flare, such as in the DS9 7th season opener arc, would be easier to defend against - the Dominion forces nearly defeated Worf and Martok's attempt there. And we haven't heard of anybody else besides Soran possessing the knowhow for creating a rapidly working starkiller.

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Old January 18 2008, 05:35 PM   #18
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Re: Breen Attack on Earth

Blueicus, you forget the comment by Weyoun in "Favor the Bold" where he says to Dukat that they need to make an example so they will kill everyone on Earth.

I think the Breen attacked in small numbers because of the easy detectability of large fleets. Remember, warp drive in a solar system is highly disruptive of planetary orbits and would therefore be noticeable, nullifying the advantage of cloaks. Massed ships emitting antimatter plasma would also be hard to hide. As for hitting a planet or sun with "warp" weapons-that pesky planetary gravity thing probably makes it impossible to aim with any degree of accuracy, and who wants to shoot a gun that may or may not hit? If I point a gun at you I would like the bullet to, at least, go in your general direction. If there is a strong and unpredictable chance of it going sideways or even back at me then I'm just going to pick up a rock and hit you over the head-its safer for me and just as painful for you. And Shameless McBundy is right-the attack was a Doolittle Raid. As I said in an earlier posting-I had to write up an overview for a fan fic last week and I thought it out fairly well. Combined with the "official" info from Memory Alpha, that was the only way I could reconcile all of the tech and known details.
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Old January 19 2008, 03:03 AM   #19
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Re: Breen Attack on Earth

Mistral said:
Remember, warp drive in a solar system is highly disruptive of planetary orbits and would therefore be noticeable, nullifying the advantage of cloaks.
Um, might I ask where this might have been established?

As for hitting a planet or sun with "warp" weapons-that pesky planetary gravity thing probably makes it impossible to aim with any degree of accuracy, and who wants to shoot a gun that may or may not hit? If I point a gun at you I would like the bullet to, at least, go in your general direction. If there is a strong and unpredictable chance of it going sideways or even back at me then I'm just going to pick up a rock and hit you over the head-its safer for me and just as painful for you.
Here, no. Gravity is supremely predictable, and the flight of objects under the influence of gravity is only a little bit less predictable than their movement while on railroad tracks. Really. You can do pretty good ballistics projections with the mathematics of the 15th century; with that of the 24th century, you can pretty well count on being able to hit your target from anywhere in the solar system. Given a guided missile rather than a ballistic one, you can pretty well count on hitting the square millimeter you have as the designated target.
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Old January 19 2008, 01:28 PM   #20
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Re: Breen Attack on Earth

OK, in a number of episodes they made a point of leaving solar systems under impulse power-and there has been mention of gravitational disruptions if you go to warp "too near a planet",
re: ballistics-the calculations become extremely absurd when you take into account not just trajectory but also gravitational influences, 'quantum flux'(the catch-all for subspace eddies and spacial disturbances in ST) and of course, the simple idea that we are attempting to launch faster than light objects(read:warheads) at an object that is virtually stationary. Put a ping pong ball in the middle of your kitchen table. Make sure the ball has a magnet inside of it. Place at least 2 or 3 other magnets around it. Vary the distance of each magnet, ranging from 1 inch to 6 inches. Now get yet another magnet about the size of a staple. Stand 6 feet away from the edge of the table and make the staple-sized magnet in you hand stick to the ball when you throw it on your ballistic trajectory.Child's play, right? Let me know how it works out.
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Old January 19 2008, 03:10 PM   #21
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Re: Breen Attack on Earth

They really should have looked up the specs for one of those fancy Xindi super weapons before they left the house.
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Old January 19 2008, 03:34 PM   #22
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Re: Breen Attack on Earth

I always liked to think the Feds and the Doms, both skilled at diplomacy, had some agreements about warfare by the time they actually went to war.
Including using only "conventional" weapons in orbitary battles and not using "WMDs" to annihilate entire systems (Especially after the trilithium bomb incident before the war).

Such agreements would also help explain the odd warfare in "The siege of AR 334", where they don't use the broad Phaser beams we saw on TNG (and the houdinis aren't as deadly as they could be).
The real reason was of course it wouldn't have been much of a battle if they had.
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Old January 19 2008, 03:39 PM   #23
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Re: Breen Attack on Earth

In AR 334, the Feds were battling the Jem'Hadar. They sent Kamakazis against the Odyssey. I don't think they have rules of engagement, other than win the war.
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Old January 19 2008, 03:48 PM   #24
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Re: Breen Attack on Earth

Apogeal Alpha01 said:
In AR 334, the Feds were battling the Jem'Hadar. They sent Kamakazis against the Odyssey. I don't think they have rules of engagement, other than win the war.
However, that was before the war, and moreorless part of a true First Contact in its own right.
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Old January 19 2008, 04:17 PM   #25
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Re: Breen Attack on Earth

The Breen attacked Earth, and we know the attack was in California ... it was no big deal ... it is just California.
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Old January 20 2008, 04:30 AM   #26
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Re: Breen Attack on Earth

Hey! That's not nice! I love my state! My beautiful state!
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Old January 20 2008, 04:36 AM   #27
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Re: Breen Attack on Earth

Well lets see... First Pearl Harbor and then the Alaskan Islands, next New York City, then part of Florida, and now California. Clearly "they" have it out for our outlying regions!
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Old January 20 2008, 04:49 AM   #28
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Re: Breen Attack on Earth

Yeah! What's wrong with Michigan! Attack Detroit, or Denver. Isn't that where Cheyene Mountain is? Isn't it all the same from space? Geez!!
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Old January 20 2008, 04:52 AM   #29
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Re: Breen Attack on Earth

I mean what has the NYC or Florida done to YOU?! Attack Rochester NY or Alabama or even parts of England just to spice things up.
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Old January 20 2008, 05:01 AM   #30
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Re: Breen Attack on Earth

^^Or Iran or North Korea.

Although that may be counter-productive as they'd likely get a standing ovation from the rest of the planet....
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