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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old January 6 2008, 12:29 AM   #76
Guy Gardener
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

But once you get past all that, you can enjoy all those cool nineties hair cuts.
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Old January 6 2008, 12:33 AM   #77
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Ethros said:
TeutonicNights said:
http://lcarscom.net/rdm1000118.htm
Ah, thanks so much. I actually had it saved on my computer, but I haven't looked at it for a while. Yep, it really sums what a waste of time VOY was at the end of the day

"It was all very technical, and they were talking about the fact that in the premise this ship was going to have problems. It wasnít going to have unlimited sources of energy. It wasnít going to have all the doodads of the Enterprise. It was going to be rougher, fending for themselves more, having to trade to get supplies that they want. That didnít happen. It doesnít happen at all, and itís a lie to the audience. I think the audience intuitively knows when something is true and something is not true. VOYAGER is not true. If it were true, the ship would not look spick-and-span every week, after all these battles it goes through. How many times has the bridge been destroyed? How many shuttlecrafts have vanished, and another one just comes out of the oven? That kind of bullshitting the audience I think takes its toll. At some point the audience stops taking it seriously, because they know that this is not really the way this would happen. These people wouldnít act like this."

...

"The continuity of the show is completely haphazard. Itís haphazard by design. Itís not like they are trying desperately to maintain continuity of the show. They donít care, and theyíll tell you flat out that they donít care."


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
\

Moore seems to forget all the advantages that the replicators gave to the crew, and the fact that they could draw power from stars to recharge.

Basically, the only way they could've done VOY the way he saw it is if it wasn't in the Trek universe, which is what he did with NuBSG.

Because frankly his complaints are neutralized by everything already established long before him.
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Old January 6 2008, 01:12 AM   #78
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Only if you think of Voyager as an alpowerful gunship colony vessel city in space... And it wasn't. 344 meters long and 15 decks deep. with around a 150 people squeezed in there that had been trying to kill each other a couple hours earlier? That's an insane pressure cooker where people are going to be killing each other for just looking at them funny by the second season ( ).

It's hard enough to get sports fans to share an arena for a couple hours, but the Maquis and Starfleet together in that cramped rickety barge? Have you seen West Side Story?

Since when was Voyager Solar Powered? In the fifth seasons opening story Night, they were all about the Deuterium, or was that merely because they were inside a stellar desert?

And there was LOTS of stuff they needed which Neelix was supposed to be the supply officer for. Hell during the pilot, I assumed that they were only having a limited number of torpedoes since they bothered to to mention they only had 70ish of them.

I love Voyagers flaws. Perfect shows are boring.
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Old January 6 2008, 03:10 AM   #79
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that VOY could draw power from Nebula matter and energies given off by stars? That's standard sci-fi power-generation stuff.

As for the Maquis thing, they really had no reason to be so dead-set against each other since the only reasons they were fighting to begin with were back in the Alpha Quadrant, not in the Delta Quadrant. What's the point of continuing to fight over things that don't have meaning anymore?

They never really specified what Neelix was there for, since they really didn't need supplies. It was a guide they needed.
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Old January 6 2008, 03:27 AM   #80
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Anwar said:


They never really specified what Neelix was there for, since they really didn't need supplies.
They still needed supplies. Replicators recycle but damaged material still has to be replaced. Also consider food & some medical supplies that are perishable.

Neelix was a trader, so he knew where & how to aquire supplies as well as knowledge of Delta Quaderant currancy. His over friendly nature makes him the perfect choice as a saleman.
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Old January 6 2008, 03:54 AM   #81
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Anwar said:
Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that VOY could draw power from Nebula matter and energies given off by stars? That's standard sci-fi power-generation stuff.

If you're talking about The Cloud, or that time with the selenium when they busted up that shuttle... That was a mining operation, sure they used something akin to a buzzscoop ramjet to get what they needed, but it was a proccess a little more difficult than "power" just being ambiantly collected from general particulate matter and energy.

Better than Dallas, worse than Mana.

And in so far as forgiving people for trying to kill and imprison you? Or tolerating traitors to your political system? The Irish and English get along "fine" these days and it only took 900 years for it to all lull into the current lack of exceptional slaughter.
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Old January 6 2008, 04:14 AM   #82
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

But if they can just tap the energy of a star, why would they need to conserve energy in the first place? We've seen other ships operate for months without having the need for saving energy.
Of course there are 1000 trexplanations for anything, and Ron Moore knows that very well (and says so in the interview). But he's kinda right, having adventures in the holodeck and having to conserve replicator power/eat weird stuff in the galley doesn't really fit together.
*Especially* when they could just tap a star and replicate a month's worth of premium food.

If B&B really thought "well, we have replicators and we can get energy everywhere off-screen, so having supply issues would be inconceivable," then why
- would they have problems with replicator energy? The couple from TNG "the survivors" had a household fusion reactor and they supposedly could power the replicator Picard handed them.
- did they not invent a technobabble reason to make them needy? they had 1000 technobabble solutions to save the day.

The answer is: B&B didn't want that and Moore sees this as wasted potential, and so do I.
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Old January 6 2008, 04:45 AM   #83
exodus
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

TeutonicNights said:
But if they can just tap the energy of a star, why would they need to conserve energy in the first place? We've seen other ships operate for months without having the need for saving energy.
Of course there are 1000 trexplanations for anything, and Ron Moore knows that very well (and says so in the interview). But he's kinda right, having adventures in the holodeck and having to conserve replicator power/eat weird stuff in the galley doesn't really fit together.
*Especially* when they could just tap a star and replicate a month's worth of premium food.

If B&B really thought "well, we have replicators and we can get energy everywhere off-screen, so having supply issues would be inconceivable," then why
- would they have problems with replicator energy? The couple from TNG "the survivors" had a household fusion reactor and they supposedly could power the replicator Picard handed them.
- did they not invent a technobabble reason to make them needy? they had 1000 technobabble solutions to save the day.

The answer is: B&B didn't want that and Moore sees this as wasted potential, and so do I.
Voyager would need a power supply that would last for years, not months. There is no guarantee that they'd find the same type of energy every time, which is why during the first seasons they kept looking for new sources.

Ron Moore is an idiot. He never takes into account stress. Lost and far away from home in hostile uncharted spece is stressful. Having to worry about being under attack by every unknown species in the Delta Q. is equal to what troops in Iraq are facing now. The holodecks are the equavilant of Bob Hope and the USO going to entertain them. It's one of the few chances at stress relief they get. Without it, the higher percentage of mental stress disorder. The holodecks are required because they help keep the crew sane.

Besides, you shouldn't have supply issues after the first few years anyway. You'd be very bad at survival if you still can't figure out a plan to power the ship & feed your crew after 2 years.
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Old January 6 2008, 05:07 AM   #84
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Deuterium is a Hydrogen isotope. Lots of Hydrogen everywhere. Just have to build a refinery to jigger Hydrogen into useful deuterium.
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Old January 6 2008, 05:27 AM   #85
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

To be honest, every time we see a new episode and the ship is 100% working and clean etc it's a reset button
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Old January 6 2008, 06:07 AM   #86
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

^^Why? Other Federation ships in the AQ got in space battles and appeared the same way in the next episode. Voyager had the same technology at their disposal, so that argument doesn't wash. I suppose one could make the case that they didn't have the same external resources, and yes, Voyager didn't have any Starbases nearby to fuel up...BUT, like Exodus said, after a few years, you'd have gotten the survival part down well enough to be prepared for such matters. I'm sure Voyager ran across a few friendly ports where they could restock/salvage/barter and meet their needs.

The show really wasn't meant to be like nuBSG--for one, the Federation's technology exceeds that of the Colonial's, hence Voyager's ability to look and fare better than Galactica--it's about maintaining one's Federation values in less than friendly territories. That's why Voyager had the look and feel of a Federation ship.
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Old January 6 2008, 06:11 AM   #87
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

^Actually, Voyager didn't even need to bother with ports to make repairs. The ship could land. They even showed it being repaired on the surface of a planet once.


They also explained in "Innocence" that Voyager was self reliant up to a point. Voyager is a deep space exploration/scouting vessel. It's was designed to be faster, stronger & self reliant because it designed to inter areas of space where it would get little or no support from other ships. It's first mission was into the Badlands where other Starfleet ships couldn't go. The one we saw on DS9 went into Romulan space-A.K.A. deep and potentally hostile territory.
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Old January 6 2008, 06:23 AM   #88
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

^^Well I meant more for bartering for supplies etc, but you're right; they could make many of the repairs they needed. People forget that this is a FEDERATION ship, a STAR TREK show, and one of the premises of Star Trek is that humanity has evolved by such leaps and bounds technologically that many material concerns have been overcome or solved. It ain't like they need to mine for oil to run their car; the Federation had developed renewable energy technology. So, whatever adjustments they might have had to make now that they were away from the Federation, would still have to be coupled with the fact they were still a Federation vessel with all of the Federation's technology at their disposal.
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Old January 6 2008, 06:38 AM   #89
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

Eminence said:
^^Well I meant more for bartering for supplies etc, but you're right; they could make many of the repairs they needed. People forget that this is a FEDERATION ship, a STAR TREK show, and one of the premises of Star Trek is that humanity has evolved by such leaps and bounds technologically that many material concerns have been overcome or solved. It ain't like they need to mine for oil to run their car; the Federation had developed renewable energy technology. So, whatever adjustments they might have had to make now that they were away from the Federation, would still have to be coupled with the fact they were still a Federation vessel with all of the Federation's technology at their disposal.
Exactly.

Just like there was never going to be any major conflict between the Maquis crew & the Starfleet one. They're both citizens of the Federation. We don't fight our own, that was all explained in DS9's "The Maquis pt.1&2". The fight was with the Cardassians because the Central Government was supplying weapons to both sides. It started in DS9's Circle Trilogy .

The Cardassian Central Command was secretly supplying the Bajorians living the the Demiliterized Zone with weapons. They did it to give them an excuse to supply Cardassian citizens with weapons to fight and harrass the Federation citizens living there too. When the Federation citizens(Maquis) fought back, it finally gave Cardassia a reason to eliminate those people living on their side of the Zone. The Cardies were always the enemy of the Maquis not the Federation.
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Old January 6 2008, 08:11 AM   #90
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Re: What would have improved Voyager?

arwag said:
what would have improved it for you?

Sticking to the premise - rigidly.

Every other good/worthy/valid point made in this thread - at least to me - branches out directly from this.

The decision to break from the premise was the studio's decision (as Michael Piller said in an interview) and not the production team's.


There was such a huge amount of conflict and drama and excitement to mine from a premise as the one that Voyager launched with.
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